The Philippine health care system will collapse, doctors & nurses driven overseas - page 4

The Philippine health care system will collapse within the next two to three years as dismal working conditions continue to drive local doctors and nurses overseas.... Read More

  1. by   lossforimagination
    Quote from fergus51
    I am completely against requiring people to serve for 3-5 years or anything like that. They need to improve wages and conditions so people WANT to stay.
    The same problem exists right here in the U.S.! Lousy conditions and the wages aren't exactly good for a full time staff job. Average nurse pay in the US is around $20/hr. Americans just don't have any real options about going somewhere better....the only real option is a better job or careerfield. Conditions can be so bad that they can't pay nurses enough to put up with it all.... The wages might sound good in the PI, that is until you come over here and have to pay rent!
  2. by   hipab4hands
    Quote from clemente21
    Sounds as if many of you have "fear of a brown planet." Come on, the need for nurses in the U.S. has never been greater. USCIS isn't going to make it easy for foreign healthcare professionals to get into the U.S. once the shortage is solved.

    Salaries for RNs is only going to increase due to demand. I think your worries are unfounded with regards to foreign healthcare pros coming here to alleviate shortages in qualified nursing staff.
    If you work in nursing long enough, you'll find that like every other industry, there are "boom" and "bust" cycles. During the "boom" periods, hospitals will hire pretty much anyone with a license and increase salaries. During the "bust" periods, there are massive layoffs, with foreign workers the first ones to lose their jobs. It's easier for hospitals to dump their non citizen employees and ship them back home. During those times, there are little to no pay raises. Hospitals have no incentive to pay more when there are 20 people applying for 1-2 openings.
    Right now , we are in one of the boom cycles and in a few years, when the "bust" cycle occurs, you'll see nurses fighting over for jobs, in the some pretty horrific working conditions.
  3. by   Rep
    For all of those here who are not well informed.

    The US Employers can not jst tell any foreign nurses to pack up their bags and leave for home.

    Foreign nurses who go to the US are in majority holding immigrant visas therefore have the same rights as US citizens except the right to vote.

    So no employers can threaten their foreign nurses to go home if and when they complain.

    I think this is the misconception of some American nurses that because of this fear of deportation foreign nurses will accept anything : low wages, poor working conditions, etc..

    And another thing is, for nurses here in the Philippines, US employers offer salaries depending on the work experiences of nurse applicants. For new graduates, salaries offered are based on the minimum wage for entry level nurses in the US. For the experienced ones, the offers are higher. So I don't think the foreign nurses are bringing wages down.
  4. by   anonymurse
    There is an unreasonable fear of competition here. My hosp. starts all new RNs off at the same wage regardless of ed. credentials (diploma, associate, bachelor). Flattened credentialism is indicative of an occupation that's wide open.

    And let the xenophobes look elsewhere. Seems the US is making things easy only for non-English speaking, uneducated, unskilled folks to immigrate, and illegals to stay. I'd rather get planeloads of educated, English-speaking Filipinas here instead.

    But basically I respect the individual. I can't count how many young Americans who've told me they "can't" be nurses because it's too "yucky," or they can't stand the sight of blood, or whatever. I won't hear that they have had nursing jobs stolen from them.
  5. by   nursing 101
    Quote from Rep
    For all of those here who are not well informed.

    The US Employers can not jst tell any foreign nurses to pack up their bags and leave for home.

    Foreign nurses who go to the US are in majority holding immigrant visas therefore have the same rights as US citizens except the right to vote.

    So no employers can threaten their foreign nurses to go home if and when they complain.

    I think this is the misconception of some American nurses that because of this fear of deportation foreign nurses will accept anything : low wages, poor working conditions, etc..

    And another thing is, for nurses here in the Philippines, US employers offer salaries depending on the work experiences of nurse applicants. For new graduates, salaries offered are based on the minimum wage for entry level nurses in the US. For the experienced ones, the offers are higher. So I don't think the foreign nurses are bringing wages down.
    Excuse me but a "visa" doesn't give you the same rights as a US citizen except to vote. An alien registered card does. Maybe that is what you are referring to.
    Most Philippine nurses have visas not alien registered card when they initially enter the country. Not that they can't apply for them. They can but when they enter the country all they have is the right to work (nothing is wrong with that). I am just stating the facts.
    I am not going to say that all Philippina nurses have a fear of deportation but the majority do... At least in my neck of the woods they do!
  6. by   nursing 101
    Quote from kurosawa
    There is an unreasonable fear of competition here. My hosp. starts all new RNs off at the same wage regardless of ed. credentials (diploma, associate, bachelor). Flattened credentialism is indicative of an occupation that's wide open.

    And let the xenophobes look elsewhere. Seems the US is making things easy only for non-English speaking, uneducated, unskilled folks to immigrate, and illegals to stay. I'd rather get planeloads of educated, English-speaking Filipinas here instead.

    But basically I respect the individual. I can't count how many young Americans who've told me they "can't" be nurses because it's too "yucky," or they can't stand the sight of blood, or whatever. I won't hear that they have had nursing jobs stolen from them.
    Sorry and I can't count how many americans or other immigrants that are on waiting list on every single University or Community College in this country. It probably equals or surpasses the same amount of foreign nurses that enter the country every year.
    I respect Philippinas just as you do as well.
  7. by   anonymurse
    Quote from nursing 101
    Sorry and I can't count how many americans or other immigrants that are on waiting list on every single University or Community College in this country. It probably equals or surpasses the same amount of foreign nurses that enter the country every year.
    Fer sure! A local university just killed its nursing program. Why? They weren't making enough money. Nurse instructors probably cost three English instructors. Cheaper for us to crank out English majors dirt cheap and charge whatever dad's wallet will bear, then steal nurses made by the Philippine educational system.
  8. by   elnski
    OK...PHILIPPINES, the country... Filipinos, the people....(not a domestic helper as mentioned by Webster..heeee)...

    Ha!! Trivia? ... thanks...
  9. by   pickledpepperRN
    Some of my nursing colleagues born and educated in the Philippines are the most assertive patient advocates of all.
    Some are wimps.
    Often former wimps no matter where they attended nursing school have learned to advocate for our patients and our profession.
    Last edit by pickledpepperRN on Oct 7, '05 : Reason: typo
  10. by   anonymurse
    Quote from elnski
    OK...PHILIPPINES, the country... Filipinos, the people....(not a domestic helper as mentioned by Webster..heeee)...

    Ha!! Trivia? ... thanks...
    I thought I was OK with 'Philippine' as an adjective:

    Oxford English Dictionary: Philippine, a.2: Of or pertaining to a Filipino, or to the Philippine islands (now the Republic of the Philippines).

    However, if I inadvertently violated a rule of Taglish, I apologize for the error (and will remind myself to use 'Filipino' for all adjectival use instead as I hope it will be correct in all contexts).
  11. by   hipab4hands
    [QUOTE=Rep]For all of those here who are not well informed.

    The US Employers can not jst tell any foreign nurses to pack up their bags and leave for home.

    Foreign nurses who go to the US are in majority holding immigrant visas therefore have the same rights as US citizens except the right to vote.

    So no employers can threaten their foreign nurses to go home if and when they complain.

    -----
    Foreign workers are given a special visa that allows them to work in specialized fields. . If they are not working in their specialized field, for which they were given the visa for, they can be sent home.

    The computer industry has a reputation of doing this. They hire workers for a project and then lay them off. Unless the worker can obtain another job, they are forced to go back home.

    During the late 1990's, when there was massive layoffs of nurses, I know of many foreign nurses , who were forced to return home, because they were unable to obtain another job in the nursing field.

    As far as wages go, hospital corporations do not have to pay foreign workers the same wages as US citizens. This is part of the reason the corporations love hiring outside of the US. Many hospitals will go through a travel nurses agency. As an example, I know of nurses, who were from Australia, who were makeing the equivalant of $8 an hour there. The travel agency hired the nurses for $14 per hour. The US born nurses in the hospital I worked at made a starting salary of $21 per hour.
  12. by   Rep
    Quote from nursing 101
    Excuse me but a "visa" doesn't give you the same rights as a US citizen except to vote. An alien registered card does. Maybe that is what you are referring to.
    Most Philippine nurses have visas not alien registered card when they initially enter the country. Not that they can't apply for them. They can but when they enter the country all they have is the right to work (nothing is wrong with that). I am just stating the facts.
    I am not going to say that all Philippina nurses have a fear of deportation but the majority do... At least in my neck of the woods they do!

    Well, let me tell you one thing about immigrant visa and alien registered card. The US Embassy gives the immigrant visas ( employment based visas ) to nurses after the interview. Also during the interview their Philippine pasports are stamped with a note saying these nurses are lawfull legal residents. These are needed when you enter US territory. Once the foreign nurses are in US territory, in a span of 6 months, they will be receiving their alien registered card identifying them as lawful legal resident of the US. Now, you know the difference between immigrant visas and the alien registration. And if their Philippine passports have expired already. They don't need to have their new Philippine passports stamped again because they already have their alien registered card.

    And one thing why some Filipinos are afraid of deportation because they are not well informed of their rights as legal immigrants.

    By the way, an immigrant ( employment or family based ) doesn't apply for a alien registration card as you have implied in your above post. It is given to the immigrant 6 months after he/she arrived in the US.
  13. by   Rep
    [QUOTE=hipab4hands]
    Quote from Rep
    For all of those here who are not well informed.

    The US Employers can not jst tell any foreign nurses to pack up their bags and leave for home.

    Foreign nurses who go to the US are in majority holding immigrant visas therefore have the same rights as US citizens except the right to vote.

    So no employers can threaten their foreign nurses to go home if and when they complain.

    -----
    Foreign workers are given a special visa that allows them to work in specialized fields. . If they are not working in their specialized field, for which they were given the visa for, they can be sent home.

    The computer industry has a reputation of doing this. They hire workers for a project and then lay them off. Unless the worker can obtain another job, they are forced to go back home.

    During the late 1990's, when there was massive layoffs of nurses, I know of many foreign nurses , who were forced to return home, because they were unable to obtain another job in the nursing field.

    As far as wages go, hospital corporations do not have to pay foreign workers the same wages as US citizens. This is part of the reason the corporations love hiring outside of the US. Many hospitals will go through a travel nurses agency. As an example, I know of nurses, who were from Australia, who were makeing the equivalant of $8 an hour there. The travel agency hired the nurses for $14 per hour. The US born nurses in the hospital I worked at made a starting salary of $21 per hour.

    Yes, that is possible if in the 1990's but now working visas are no longer issue to Filipinos/foreign nurses. Most of them went to the US as immigrants therefore have no fear of deportation unless they commit criminal acts.

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