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| No. 30 |
Oct 12, 2009, 11:59 PM
Re: Swine flu victim asked to leave ER dies next day Originally Posted by hiddencat They did. I guess I don't see what the problem with that is- the poster didn't claim to know and it was just another theory being discussed. I don't think the implication was that he didn't deserve medical attention.
Addiction is an illness, and are fellow human beings too. I didn't read that post as suggesting he was a lowlife.
She sure didn't sound like she admired him. She was not singing his praises. She was speculating that he might be a regular, an addict. That is derisive and was not called for, as she has stated since.
| | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 31 |
Oct 13, 2009, 03:39 AM
Re: Swine flu victim asked to leave ER dies next day
The "security" person sounds like one of those wack-a-doodle-dos who may not have made it to training to be a police officer. So he takes out his frustration on anyone not befitting his idea of appropriate deportment.
As busy as EDs get, the nurses probably never saw the would be patient, as the "security" guy thought he was in charge of disposing of anyone on the premises who was in anyone's way. I've seen that type, and tried to reason with him, but he wouldn't hear anything but his own viewpoint.
Usually employees like that don't last long; and while I'd like to guess that he was responsible for the patient's death, it was more likely the flu, happening in someone with some preexisting condition. Once they head south, there's no rescuing them...... I'll bet that he didn't want to lie flat the day he returned and died, as orthopnea usually happens when someone has congested lungs.....
| | No. 32 |
Oct 13, 2009, 08:13 AM
Re: Swine flu victim asked to leave ER dies next day Originally Posted by Vito Andolini She sure didn't sound like she admired him. She was not singing his praises.
Ok? Originally Posted by Vito Andolini She was speculating that he might be a regular, an addict. That is derisive and was not called for, as she has stated since.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
| | No. 33 |
Oct 13, 2009, 08:29 AM
Updated
Oct 13, 2009 at 08:39 AM by MassED
Re: Swine flu victim asked to leave ER dies next day Originally Posted by CASTLEGATES I had the swine flu; it makes sense. How many critical of the article had it, as well?
It's easy to figure things out if you're not in the situation but you feel like hell, get the fidgets and move a little. Certainly you can drive or do something for limited periods of time but sit in a chair for 13 hours (the typical wait time here is about 9-11 hours) and of course he'd get tired and want to lay down.
For me, I'd walk a couple hundred yards, feel OK and pay like hell later. Once up you just don't know how bad your body is going to punish you once you get back down and THAT's when you feel like you're going to die; after moving. My guess is his final walk from his car was enough. He likely collapsed at home after walking from his car leaving, as well.
Rather than scrutinizing, read the article. It is what it is. Regardless of why, he laid down and he was asked to leave before being assessed.
Accusing the guy of being a demerol junkie is just plain reckless and sad to his memory. This is the biggest issue with forums; assumptions. A demerol seeker? Where does it say that? Nowhere in the article did it accuse him of drug seeking.
He was one day from death and if you know anything about the flu and how long it takes....one day exposure won't kill you tomorrow. It took me a couple weeks to really get down and out with it and stop eating.
Remember there's a family mourning. ASSuming all this other rubbish is uncalled for.
Turns out Mr. Range was homeless. If you've worked for homeless shelters, you typically can't be drinking and stay there. They stated he had the ability to make others smile, ....... He was brought by ambulance.
They did all the tests and he was waiting and so sick he laid down. The director of the shelter blogged on his case. It seems like the article explains just the facts, no more, no less. He was ill, laid down too much, asked to leave.
Where he came from and any previous crimes and mention thereof are just plain discrimination.
who knows what all the facts are - it'd be a HIPPA violation if we did know - the media always glorifies the down and dirty details, not necessarily what is correct.
By the way, the poster who wrote that maybe this person was a frequent flyer - those of us in the ER know the type - that was all he or she was putting out there - a hypothetical. We don't know all the facts, and since frequent flyers are so... well frequent, that is a natural assumption - an assumption, yes, but that occurs. It happens.
Either way - sounds like this security guard made assumptions about that poor man (homeless, lying on ground in waiting room, needing to "move on") and should be held accountable. This man was a patient and the security guard made a choice that directly led to this man's demise, allegedly. I don't know what repercussions the security guard may face - since the guard can't make medical decisions, but then the patient could have chosen not to have left. If the patient wasn't mentating as before, then a triage nurse would have noticed - where I work, there is "usually" a triage nurse out in the lobby. This points to getting triage nurses back out to "see" the lobby - we have been doing away with that, but it's so important to have a medically trained person to be able to lay eyes on the lobby.
| | No. 37 |
Oct 13, 2009, 06:20 PM
Re: Swine flu victim asked to leave ER dies next day
Maybe he CHOSE to leave. Seen it happen. Could have been told that if he wants to be seen he needs to have a seat, chair, wheelchair or what ever. OR if he wants to flop around on the floor/ground he just needs to leave. He may have then just at that point left on his own volition. Properly trained security is going to know to ask if someone wants to see a doctor or not. I know ER waiting rooms are a convenient place for homeless people to sleep and security is tasked keeping them clear of these kind of persons.
| | No. 39 |
Oct 14, 2009, 10:11 AM
Re: Swine flu victim asked to leave ER dies next day Originally Posted by MassED there must be more to the story. That would never occur in any ER I know of - first, security would have to bring it to the attention of a medical person - usually triage nurse or team leader, or charge RN. They would assess the person, particularly if a person was lying on the ground. I have never seen security make a decision regarding patient care by having a person leave, especially since they checked in to be seen. Nope, wouldn't happen. Unless this security person acted of their own accord. In which case, good luck security guy/gal.
Not true. All of the following occurred within the last year. Originally Posted by CNN NEW YORK (CNN) -- A 49-year-old woman collapsed and died on the floor of a waiting room at a Brooklyn psychiatric hospital and lay there for more than an hour as employees ignored her, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, which on Tuesday released surveillance camera video of the incident.
Esmin Green was involuntarily admitted to the psychiatric emergency department of Kings County Hospital Center on June 18 for what the hospital describes as "agitation and psychosis."
Upon her admission, Green waited nearly 24 hours for treatment, said the civil liberties union, which was among the groups filing suit against the facility last year seeking improved conditions for patients.
The surveillance camera video shows the woman rolling off a waiting room chair, landing face-down on the floor and convulsing. Her collapse came at 5:32 a.m. June 19, the NYCLU said, and she stopped moving at 6:07 a.m. During that time, the organization said, workers at the hospital ignored her.
At 6:35 a.m., the tape shows a hospital employee approaching and nudging Green with her foot, the group said. Help was summoned three minutes later. In addition, the organization said, hospital staff falsified Green's records to cover up the time she had lain there without assistance. http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/01/wai...rss_topstories Originally Posted by MSNBC LOS ANGELES - A woman who lay bleeding on the emergency room floor of a troubled inner-city hospital died after 911 dispatchers refused to contact paramedics or an ambulance to take her to another facility, newly released tapes of the emergency calls reveal.Edith Isabel Rodriguez, 43, died of a perforated bowel on May 9 at Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor Hospital. Her death was ruled accidental by the Los Angeles County coroner’s office.
Relatives said Rodriguez was bleeding from the mouth and writhing in pain for 45 minutes while she was at a hospital waiting area. Experts have said she could have survived had she been treated early enough.
County and state authorities are now investigating Rodriguez’s death. Relatives reported she died as police were wheeling her out of the hospital after the officers they had asked to help Rodriguez arrested her instead on a parole violation. Sheriff’s Department spokesman Duane Allen said Wednesday that the investigation is ongoing.In the recordings of two 911 calls that day, first obtained by the Los Angeles Times under a California Public Records Act request, callers pleaded for help for Rodriguez but were referred to hospital staff instead.
“I’m in the emergency room. My wife is dying and the nurses don’t want to help her out,” Rodriguez’s boyfriend, Jose Prado, is heard saying in Spanish through an interpreter on the tapes.
“What’s wrong with her?” a female dispatcher asked.
“She’s vomiting blood,” Prado said. “OK, and why aren’t they helping her?” the dispatcher asked.
“They’re watching her there and they’re not doing anything. They’re just watching her,” Prado said.The dispatcher told Prado to contact a doctor and then said paramedics wouldn’t pick her up because she was already in a hospital. She later told him to contact county police officers at a security desk.
A second 911 call was placed eight minutes later by a bystander who requested that an ambulance be sent to take Rodriguez to another hospital for care.
“She’s definitely sick and there’s a guy that’s ignoring her,” the woman told a male dispatcher. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/ Originally Posted by MPR News St. Paul, Minn. — A patient died after he waited about 90 minutes to receive treatment for a stroke at St. John's Hospital in Maplewood, according to an investigation by the Minnesota Department of Health.
A family member brought the man to the emergency room on April 1, 2007 at about 11:50 a.m., and told staff she thought the patient was having a stroke. The man's symptoms included impaired peripheral vision and facial numbness.
A nurse evaluated the patient at 11:53 a.m., and gave him an "emergency severity index" classification of 2. The emergency room staff rate patients on a scale of 1-5, with 1 being the most urgent cases and 5 being least urgent.
The nurse documented that the patient's symptoms started at about 8 a.m., when he complained of visual problems, a headache, and expressive aphasia. A family member also told the nurse that the patient had a history of alcohol use and recently "fell off the wagon," according to the MDH report.
Hospital policy requires that staff reassess waiting patients every 30 minutes. Instead, the nurse did not conduct a formal reassessment for 75 minutes. A nurse did take the patient's vital signs at 11:53 a.m. and 12 p.m. The tests indicated that the patient was suffering from hypertension.
Staff did not bring the patient into a treatment room until 1:15 p.m. Within five minutes, the patient began seizing. http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...9/18/er-death/ | | 319 members
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