SARS Response Failed to Protect HCW's - page 2

The final report of the Ontario SARS commission came out today: The ChronicleHerald.ca A multi-million dollar class action has been launched by nurses against the government. Information... Read More

  1. by   SuesquatchRN
    I'm well, thanks.

  2. by   Gizzey
    Quote from indigo girl
    OK, could you explain exactly what your job is at your hospital, and how it could relate to pandemic flu response. I am not really clear about your role.
    Are you satisfied with the PPE, and the education that the hospital has provided?
    I am nurse advisor on the Major incident team. Major incidents cover Bombs, Bioterrorism, pandemics anything that will change the day to day running of the hospital.
    I am involved in liasing with nurses and policy and planning. Also education.
    In the event of a pandemic, the major incident team will kick in and take over the running of the hospital. It will shut down services and start new ones.
    I.e. Cancelling all elective surgeries. Re-allocating existing patients, calling in staff etc., etc.,
    Everyone will report to major incident from there on in.
    Once a Major incident happens I will become a co-ordinator! In the case of a pandemic it will be live in.
    I have worked thru' 2 major incidents. The Omagh bombing and the Drumcree crisis so am confident in my ability. So must the others have been they asked me back :-)
    Am I satisfied? I don't know. Content might be a better word because of the above 2 incidents, I know there are great nurses out there, some of the best, who will change roles at the drop of a hat and work under serious pressure but a pandemic is different. It is something not known. I am content we have adequate PPE's for the first wave..So between the loyal, dedicated brilliant staff and PPE's. I am content but it the fear of the unknown that stops me saying satisfied.
  3. by   indigo girl
    Quote from Gizzey
    I am nurse advisor on the Major incident team. Major incidents cover Bombs, Bioterrorism, pandemics anything that will change the day to day running of the hospital.
    I am involved in liasing with nurses and policy and planning. Also education.
    In the event of a pandemic, the major incident team will kick in and take over the running of the hospital. It will shut down services and start new ones.
    I.e. Cancelling all elective surgeries. Re-allocating existing patients, calling in staff etc., etc.,
    Everyone will report to major incident from there on in.
    Once a Major incident happens I will become a co-ordinator! In the case of a pandemic it will be live in.
    I have worked thru' 2 major incidents. The Omagh bombing and the Drumcree crisis so am confident in my ability. So must the others have been they asked me back :-)
    Am I satisfied? I don't know. Content might be a better word because of the above 2 incidents, I know there are great nurses out there, some of the best, who will change roles at the drop of a hat and work under serious pressure but a pandemic is different. It is something not known. I am content we have adequate PPE's for the first wave..So between the loyal, dedicated brilliant staff and PPE's. I am content but it the fear of the unknown that stops me saying satisfied.
    Does your hospital have plans that specify how long a FIRST wave of infection from pandemic flu is expected to be?

    For example, the Red Cross blood banks in the US, are expecting and planning for a 12 week first wave (though they are only telling the public about stockpiling food for 3 weeks - dishonest, IMO).

    It is amazing to me that organizations have this kind of in depth planning here, which they ARE NOT sharing with the public, but that is off topic.
  4. by   Gizzey
    Quote from indigo girl
    Does your hospital have plans that specify how long a FIRST wave of infection from pandemic flu is expected to be?

    For example, the Red Cross blood banks in the US, are expecting and planning for a 12 week first wave (though they are only telling the public about stockpiling food for 3 weeks - dishonest, IMO).

    It is amazing to me that organizations have this kind of in depth planning here, which they ARE NOT sharing with the public, but that is off topic.
    4 months, they were working on the 1918 numbers but went into excess because Dublin Airport is now an international hub airport. Particularly transatlantic to the rest of the world!
    That is because Aer Lingus is the only transatlantic lo cost airline and Ryanair and Easyjet are the locost airlines to the rest of the world..
    Aer Lingus and Ryanair are irish airlines which operate in Dublin. Ryanair is huge on the global scale.
    So we felt we needed to be extra careful..WE are only 55-65 minutes from Dublin.
    In 1918 Ireland was isolated, with very few human bods coming in or out but we still managed to get hard..We have decided to up the ante now.
  5. by   indigo girl
    Quote from Gizzey
    4 months, they were working on the 1918 numbers but went into excess because Dublin Airport is now an international hub airport. Particularly transatlantic to the rest of the world!
    That is because Aer Lingus is the only transatlantic lo cost airline and Ryanair and Easyjet are the locost airlines to the rest of the world..
    Aer Lingus and Ryanair are irish airlines which operate in Dublin. Ryanair is huge on the global scale.
    So we felt we needed to be extra careful..WE are only 55-65 minutes from Dublin.
    In 1918 Ireland was isolated, with very few human bods coming in or out but we still managed to get hard..We have decided to up the ante now.
    I was NOT expecting to hear four months!! That is shocking to me. I'll have to let my ex husband at Red Cross know. I can understand the thinking though.

    Did you see the post at Pandemic Flu Thread II on the CIDRAP conference.
    I am so excited. I may be eating tuna fish for weeks, but I am going to this conference some how!

    Back to SARS, how could these institutions keep information away from these nurses, who worked at the bedside? This is mind boggling, and really frightening.

    I worry that this will happen again. Even with these new pediatric cases in Alabama, I have to ask are the staff being inserviced adequately? It was seasonal flu, this time, but it might not be some time in the future. We may have no warning before cases appear, and they may be just like these, occurring in the pediatric population.
  6. by   indigo girl
    We are still learning about how health care systems responded to the SARS
    epidemic in Canada. This is very useful information that may be important for the future response of these systems to the threat of a pandemic flu.
    (hat tip flutrackers/cartski)
    http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/176/5/614
    Last edit by indigo girl on Mar 9, '07
  7. by   palestine nurse
    thank you
    this is very good topic
  8. by   indigo girl
    Quote from palestine nurse
    thank you
    this is very good topic
    Welcome palestine nurse! I am very pleased to see you on this thread.
    If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

    Your part of the world is now dealing with the bird flu virus, H5N1. I hope that you find this information, easily understood.
  9. by   SmilingBluEyes
    VERY worrisome, to say the least. Thank you.
  10. by   indigo girl
    For those of us who never knew that SARS ever effected anyone in this country, including myself in that group:
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol10no2/pdfs/03-0752.pdf

    We are so set in our belief that our modern medical system will be able to protect us from anything, but is this really true?

    Has anyone read "The China Syndrome" by Karl Taro Greenfeld? He was the editor of Time Asia in Hong Kong during the SARS epidemic. I am ordering this on line. It is supposed to be a cliff hanger. I believe it. We got lucky that this did not become a pandemic. Does SARS still exist somewhere in China? Only the Chinese govt knows, and they are not talking about a lot of things. The Olympics are coming up, you know.
  11. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I will have to check out that book. But then reading things like this keeps me up for nights in worry. It is scary when you stop to consider the grave possibilities out there. Do you stock up on supplies, food, etc, Indigo?
  12. by   indigo girl
    This answer probably belongs in the flu thread, but since most of my threads have a common theme, here is what I am doing.

    I feel that it is only prudent to have emergency food stocks especially if you have children. Although some govt web sites, and the Red Cross are saying stock up for various amounts of time from 3 days to 2 weeks, this seems rather inadequate given the historical evidence we have from the 1918 pandemic. That occurred in waves of infection of around 12 weeks each time. There were 3 waves in about one year. Since we just do not know what will happen or when, erring on the cautious side seems like the best thing for us to do. Who would want to go out to purchase baby formula at the last minute, and be amongst others who may look well but actually be infected.

    At least with SARS, you were not contagious until you had symptoms.
    With influenza, you could be contagious, and not even know that you were sick yet. The clerk handling your produce could be infected.
    I also do not want to fight for what is left in any food market. There could be physical violence that I would not want myself or my family exposed to.

    I would stock gloves, masks, toiletries, whatever I thought my family might need for at least 3 months. If I could not afford 3 months worth, I would do whatever I could afford. Don't forget water if you do not have a well.
    Remember your pets too.

    There are many websites that can teach us how to prepare very economically. People are willingly sharing this information for the benefit of all of us. It does no good for me to prepare if my neighbors are not.
    I believe that it is in my best interest to do what I can to help.

    It is funny. My exhusband, an MD with the Red Cross is preparing at least 3 months worth of supplies. He even bought N95 masks for his children.
    The man lives for his kids, and I love that about him. He was afraid to tell me what his agency was going to tell people to do. He does not know why they have decided this, and neither do I. Who will feed the people when the stores are empty? The Red Cross? How? Everyone will be in the same situation across the globe.

    We have to take responsibility for ourselves because there is no one else.
    Sorry if this sounds melodramatic, folks, but this is how it is. I am not happy about it either, but we can do this.

    Here are some websites with some advice about prepping. They all have a different philosophy. Go with what you feel comfortable with. There are other flu forums with advice also if anyone would like to add them, I just
    don't have time to list them all. I have no preference.

    http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11957

    http://www.planforpandemic.com/viewforum.php?f=24
    Last edit by indigo girl on Mar 16, '07
  13. by   indigo girl
    I want to include this SARS study here even though the study is based on what happened in Hong Kong.
    There are implications for planning for future epidemics of communicable disease such as pandemic influenza:http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...41&postcount=1

    Quote from [URL="http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270"
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270[/URL]
    ...it's common for hospitals to put more patients in a unit during an epidemic, not fewer, but the findings show the danger of that practice.
    Our current pandemic plans in most states involve directing flu cases that can not be managed at home, to designated sites such as gymnasiums, hotels, schools etc. I suspect that that there will be many patients per unit
    because they will not be able to handle the numbers in any other way.
    Everyone remembers the pictures from 1918 of large groups of soldiers on cots, lined up row after row.

    Quote from [URL="http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270"
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270[/URL]
    The authors noted the lessons learned. They wrote, "With the current threat of avian influenza and other respiratory infections, such as tuberculosis, hospital wards have to be redesigned and managed in a manner to ensure that environmental factors associated with nosocomial infections are kept to the minimum."
    Are hospitals really going to be redesigned? I do not see this kind of planning taking place here in this era of budget tightening.

    Quote from [URL="http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270"
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270[/URL]
    "The importance of adequate spacing between beds and provision of washing or changing facilities for staffers cannot be overemphasized. Staffers with symptoms of respiratory infections should refrain from continuing their clinical duties. Adequate complementary protective devices at the source of infection (namely, infected patients) would have to be designed.
    Staffers with s/s of respiratory infections staying home? Given our current system of retaliation against workers that call out sick, this is not likely.
    Some facilities are starting to realize the importance of keeping visitors with respiratory symptoms as well as staff from entering. This type of thinking involves a cultural change that should be encouraged thru PSAs, state wide health policies etc. It is very important to make this change, but
    it will involve a massive educational campaign because this attitude is so entrenched in our work ethic.


    Quote from [URL="http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270"
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/GeneralInfectiousDisease/tb/5270[/URL]
    "Additional work needs to be conducted with regard to the safe use of oxygen therapy and/or ventilatory support among patients with respiratory infections."
    This is curious. Are they talking about closed systems? I am wondering about the ways that use of oxygen therapy could spread infection, and how to minimize this.

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