Sapping Philippines' Health Care System - page 2

Interesting Article and Perspective: Hiring of Nurses by U.S. and U.K. Saps Philippines' Health Care System Filipinas Magazine, Investigative Report, Booma Cruz, May 17, 2004 The... Read More

  1. by   elnski
    I personally, will still be looking forward to go back to my homeland. Id jus save and earn some and go back and buy some, pitch some, live some.. National pride...by what? a lot of people has attempted to so something about it, but the roots of corruption is too deep, i don't think nothing will ever make a difference..try make a difference, its either u will be in a newspaper or be covered with newspapaer.. I will make a difference on my own..I will strive hard, work hard..earn my living in a decent way I should. I am paying my taxes, national insurance and Im not making use of any public funds. As long as I am not a burden to this country, I dont feel any guilt. I am not a burden here, in fact, Im contributing to the nation and its people through my massive tax of which I am not fully benefitting from... well, that is my due, so i must give it.. to support dependents and even locals and asylum seekers who are jobless and has no intention to find for one mainly.. we will stay home, why not, and strive to improve our working conditions..but why perplex and exhaust my self when someone is opening its doors for opportunity? And these doors will allow only if I will meet the criterion to pass.. If u dont want us to be around, don't tell us..Tell ur government, because they are the ones keeping them doors... Am jus wondering if the locals suggesting to us 'foreigners' to stay at home are really a native of this land. Perhaps, ur ancestors were here ages ago for the same reason as we do... IMO...out my 3 centavos..
  2. by   jonRNMD
    Quote from lindarn
    How would the US Healthcare system have collapsed? There are 500, 000 American nurses who are not working in nursing because of poor workng conditions, and sub standard wages.

    An overabundance of foreign nurses willing to come to the US and work for the lowest possible legal wage that can be offered, has also lowered the pay, benefits, and working conditions here.
    in response to your argument, how would 500,000 American nurses who are not working as nurses prevent the collapse of the american healthcare system? granting the US has 10 million (not 500,000) american licensed nurses not working in nursing, how could they be of help to the US healthcare system if they were not working as nurses? would you keep them out of the nursing profession just to force the hospital management to grant the non-practicing American nurses higher wages and more benefits so they would return to their practice? and how about the American patients who are in dire need of the nurse's love and care? would you sacrifice them too just to force hospital management for better pay and compensation?

    a number of NYC hospitals have closed due to high maintainance and overhead cost....management is forced to do some drastic measures to save the most number of jobs and to keep the hospital afloat.....let us understand their predicament.....higher pay and compensation is not one of the solution....

    it is through the sweat and perseverance of these foreign nurses willing to come to the US and work for the lowest possible wage which kept US healthcare system afloat......Love and Peace to all
  3. by   afhroends
    Quote from lindarn
    How would the US Healthcare system have collapsed? There are 500, 000 American nurses who are not working in nursing because of poor workng conditions, and sub standard wages.

    What really should/would have happened, is that American hospitals would have been forced to work on retention, instead of recruitment, increase the wages, working conditions, and benefits to American nurses, who would have not left bedside nursing en masse, as conditions/pay have deteriorated. Unfortunately, by having the option to bring in foreign nurses to fill in the staffing gaps, there has been no incentive for hospitals to correct these conditions. An overabundance of foreign nurses willing to come to the US and work for the lowest possible legal wage that can be offered, has also lowered the pay, benefits, and working conditions here.

    I have nothing agaist foreign nurses, but until pay, benefits, and working conditions are brought up to where they shoud be, there should not be the option to being in foreign nurses to give the hospitals the out, and foreign nurses should stay home and work on improving conditions in their own country. JMHO and $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington



    Everybody listen. This is the trend here. Someone posts about the plight of the "poor" healthcare system in the Philippines, and after about 2-3 relevant responses, posts become personal, irresponsible and insensitive. In my country, which is the Philippines, more is expected of professionals or college graduates. The higher your education, the more is expected of you. Logically, an educated person is wiser and more tempered. So, essentially, what comes our of your mouth is a reflection of your education and to a large extent, your upbringing.

    I have read some posts, calling Filipinos whimps and unpatriotic, and a whole lot of things. Is this what you call freedom of speech? to say whatever you like, however you want it? Shouldn't you be making positive critisms and suggestions instead?

    To those individuals who have tongues, 10x bigger than their brains, think about how the world would be like if every individual is like you. Filipinos talking agains Americans, Americans talking against asians, and so on and so forth. Hey, i can make numerous negative comments about americans, but i responsibly opt not to do so.

    An educated, responsible professional would make positive suggestions and would even go the extra mile to channel her/his concerns to the proper authorities rather than initiate hate and bias.
  4. by   Hopalong
    Quote from afhroends
    Everybody listen. This is the trend here. Someone posts about the plight of the "poor" healthcare system in the Philippines, and after about 2-3 relevant responses, posts become personal, irresponsible and insensitive. In my country, which is the Philippines, more is expected of professionals or college graduates. The higher your education, the more is expected of you. Logically, an educated person is wiser and more tempered. So, essentially, what comes our of your mouth is a reflection of your education and to a large extent, your upbringing.

    I have read some posts, calling Filipinos whimps and unpatriotic, and a whole lot of things. Is this what you call freedom of speech? to say whatever you like, however you want it? Shouldn't you be making positive critisms and suggestions instead?

    To those individuals who have tongues, 10x bigger than their brains, think about how the world would be like if every individual is like you. Filipinos talking agains Americans, Americans talking against asians, and so on and so forth. Hey, i can make numerous negative comments about americans, but i responsibly opt not to do so.

    An educated, responsible professional would make positive suggestions and would even go the extra mile to channel her/his concerns to the proper authorities rather than initiate hate and bias.
    My I have worked with Filipino nurses,CNA's many times over the years and have yet to see one that was anything but positive and fun to work with. Maybe the prejudice stems from jealousy?
  5. by   lee1
    The "prejudice" is only towards a system that has allowed an AMERICAN profession to become so endangered by the constant importation of easy labor that has also weakened nursing working conditions, lowered standards and created a so-called shortage of nurses who do not want to continue to work under conditions that are detrimental to their licenses, health and wellness. AKA as the impending death of the "bedside staff nurse".
  6. by   lindarn
    AMEN!! That is what my post was about. Did you notice the reply from the Philipino nurse who bragged about how they don't care if they work for peanuts, far below the going rate in the area, driving down OUR SALARIES!! I agree, with the above, I want to preserve our profession for American nurses, to preserve OUR WAY OF LIFE AND EMPLOYMENT!! NOT THE THIRD WORLD EMPLOYMENT, WHICH IS WHAT AMERICA IS BECOMING, DUE TO WORKERS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO ARE WILLING TO COME HERE AND DRIVE DOWN OUR WAGE STRUCTURE, WHICH THE HOSPITALS ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO ACCOMODATE.

    If anyone had read my previous posts, it is my strong belief, that the ultimate goal of all of this restructuring, abusive conduct towards nurses, is being done on purpose by the hospitals and insurance companies. It is an effeort to drive licensed nurse away from the hospital, so that they can claim that there is a "nursing shortage", and win more visas for foreign nurses, and de- skill our professional practice. It is an effort to cut the cost of healthcare by replacing high cost American workers with foreign workers, by insourcing, when outsourcing is not possible. And replacing licensed staff, with unlicensed personnel when ever possible. It is the drive that keeps the ANA from taking the plunge to make the BSN the entry into practice. Other countries already have increased the entry into practice, and the attitute will be, "well you American nurses aren't as well educated as the foreign nurses, that is why we are bringing them here".

    Take a step back, and look at the big picture. If there was a true nursing shortage, we would be making $100, 000 a year with much better benfits than we receive. If nothing else, our salaries have stagnated in the past decade, and our benfits have taken a dive, as well. There is no real effort to retain nurses in the profession, is there? They just want to bring in a new group of suckers from "ABC Community College", every year to replace the experienced nurses who have left in disgust. Now ask yourself, why?

    That is what Arnie, in California, is fighting for. He had been bought by big business, who want the above work scenarios to occur. He is being fought by the California Nurses Association, who have fought for, and won, the staffing war. They are the only ones. Regardles of what the anti union, anti CNA nurses can say, they have not, will not, and cannot win the battle by themselves against the hospitals, doctors, and insurance companies. Their delusions of grandeur, will not win them any work place reforms. Once again, JMHO, and NY $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  7. by   elnski
    No way I will work for the lowest wages!! I am NOT worth it....

    NO WAY!!
  8. by   elnski
    Gist of the ever popular argument: Foreign nurses in America is the primary reason why working/pay conditions are getting worse and is not gonna get better... WHO allows this to happen?

    You cannot tell running waters to stop running not until the tap is turned off... or it ran dry..

    BLAME...BLAME...
    Cuss..cuss..cuss.. it's not good for the heart..

    I AM VERY SURE, EVEN IF A DREAM COME TRUE OF NURSES IN AMERICA WILL HAVE GREAT PAY WITHOUT A FOREIGNER IN SIGHT, CONTENTMENT WILL NEVER EXIST.... because the nature of the job is always stressful...a channel is always sought to drain it out... and human nature --- will always want..

    u cant call us to have 3rd world kinda nursing education...well, the authors of our textbooks lyk Saunders, Luckmann & Sorensen, Barbara Bates, Doenges, etc. are from your world...

    for the next 10-20 years, this argument will continue to linger...lest a constitution will be held..

    unite american nurses, and urge your government to stop giving visas to foreign nurses w/c takes 1-2yrs to process.. or better yet, close ur boarders.. and all ur problems will be sorted in a whiz!!
  9. by   elnski
    a new group of suckers from ABC Community college....

    hmmmm... interesting group of people....
  10. by   lee1
    Unfortunately this saga has been ongoing for at least 35 years. My own son-in-law who is only 30 has exactly the same problem in the computer industry. As America continues to outsource the majority of it's work and the insource is comprised of many immigrants, I wonder just when the melting pot will melt.
    Education in Europe is basically free and many more young people have university educations than young people here. What will that mean say in another 25 years???? Hy husband's neices and nephews are Italian and they almost all have university educations that their parents and them did not have to pay an arm and a leg for.
    OR will the world finally become just one united world?? As we all do the same thing here, there and everywhere??
  11. by   caloy
    I'm a little confused.

    from what i've seen in the posts, it's 1) bad pay
    2) deplorable working conditions/ high patient-to-nurse ratio

    1)bad bay:
    isn't much more than a simple damand and supply issue (especially since we're dealing with rising health care costs). The demand (accdg to sources) has been growing for years and will continue to grow. If it were a simple issue as demand and supply; wouldn't we have seen surges in salaries already.

    2) patient-to-nurse ratio
    considering that one-third of new nurses going into the workforce is foreign-born (accdg to another source); wouldn't the halt of immigrating nurses even strain the patient-to-nurse ratio even more?
    The alternatives wouldn't be as quick to implement

    And there was one post saying that filipinos are unpatriotic.

    Consider this. Isn't limiting the influx of needed nurses cause either increase in patient-to-nurse ratio or in some cases hospitals being shut down. Causing patients or would-be-patients to be even more endangered. Isn't endangering people's lives in order for better pay more unpatriotic?

    after all, doesn't nursing put the needs of the community ahead of the good of its individual members?
  12. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from jonRNMD
    Lee1, if not because of the thousands of my fellow Filipinos working in the US, the US healthcare system would have collapsed a couple of years ago.
    I do not agree. Many nurses in the US feel that there is no nursing shortage. In fact, US Dept of Labor statistics bear this out. US nurses leave nursing because of lack of respect and poor working conditions. But, because so many foreign nurses are will to come in and take their places, US companies do not have to address these problems.

    Check the link and read the thread to see what many nurses in the US think.

    http://allnurses.com/forums/f195/rea...-247767-4.html
    Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Sep 10, '07
  13. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from caloy
    2) patient-to-nurse ratio
    considering that one-third of new nurses going into the workforce is foreign-born (accdg to another source); wouldn't the halt of immigrating nurses even strain the patient-to-nurse ratio even more?
    The alternatives wouldn't be as quick to implement
    One would think so, but this is not the case. Ratios are determined by hospital administration- based on how many nurses they are willing to pay for for a certain number of patients. Staffing levels are not detemined by how many nurses are available to work. When admin feels there are too many nurses on duty, they send them home or float them to other areas. Short staffing is done on purpose, in order to save money.

    California manadated nurse to pt ratios. This ended up actually attracting many nurses to California to work. I was just reading an article which states the ratios have attracted hundreds of thousands of nurses to Calif.

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