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| No. 80 | 
Sep 17, 2009, 01:30 AM
Updated
Sep 17, 2009 at 01:31 AM by Not_A_Hat_Person
 Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze Originally Posted by Cindy V. RN  I couldn't agree more about foreign nurses taking over our market.
They contribute to poor working conditions in numerous ways. Jobs are becoming more difficult to find, wages are being held down because they will work for less and for many overtime hours, often they have poor communications and weak nursing skills and they can be cliquish, aggressive, and contemptuous. How is that for stereotyping? This is a generalization but has some merit with most everyone who has worked with foreign trained nurses. . .
This also gives foreigners a chance to get their foot on American soil. I am more concerned about this, than field laborers being deported for working agricultural jobs which no one wants.
Foreigners have been "getting their foot on American soil" since America began. The only exceptions are Native Americans and (to a degree) African Americans.
My beef is with US hospitals that refuse to hire Americans, while importing nurses from overseas. I have no problem with foreign nurses. They're no different than any other group of immigrants. Many come from countries where women are third-class citizens, and nursing is a low-class job. If things were so great in their home countries, they wouldn't want to leave.
 | | No. 81 |
Sep 17, 2009, 01:52 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze (Pardon me as I have clicked the bold lettering on and off and it does not disappear, so it appears that I am stuck writing in bold for now).
Addition to the post I made:
1) First of all, I have to say that I might have vehement sometimes in my post, and I should have checked it before I post. I also am only speaking for myself.
2) I wanted to reiterate and emphasize that the observations and experiences that I related are what I have personally seen and experienced, other than the few things I related that I had stated I had heard.
3) I AM NOT quoting what I wrote from a "racist perspective." Quite the contrary, if you were to see me, you would see how I myself have been discriminated against living here in America (My family came here about 500+ years ago, but I am 1/16th American Indian as well. ) I have traveled extensively around the world, lived in many countries, and speak several languages OTHER than English (which is my native language). I also have many friends from different ethnicities, religions, etc.
4) I also am not "generalizing" and saying that what I wrote was true about EVERYONE in the nationalities that I addressed in my post. Again, what I wrote about is what I have personally seen and witnessed. I know that there are many good HCPs-Indian, Philipino, and other nationalities out there- who do a great job. I personally think that Indian docs are very good based on what I have observed, as well as based on the results of the oral interviews I and the rest of the team did. I also commented on Indian and Philipino sttrengths and weaknesses as I have witnessed.
 HOWEVER test and oral interview results DO NOT LIE and are a general representation of the nurses and docs from the countries that I mentioned as they are from all different regions, schools, etc. of their countries, not just from one region or one school.
Furthermore, This is not to say that Americans are better prepared either. I failed an American nurse and doc who I did not think were up to snuff. (However, there were not that many Americans who applied for jobs in this country versus the number of other nationalities that I tested.) I also failed some Europeans who again were not up to snuff.
Also, I hope you did not perceive me as thinking that Asians have a "low regard for human life." I do not think that. As for the "submissive nature", I am sorry, but I do agree with this for the most part as I see it in those who have lived/spent most of their life overseas. Again, this does not mean that all people from these countries are submissive, and I realize that these cultures are slowly learning how to overcome this attitude which has been deeply ingrained by their culture, but it is a fact that the nursing profession is considered as being very low on the totem pole in many countries, even here in America where we have had to work on this attitude for a very long time as you will learn in your nursing classes. Furthermore, I have seen how people from these countries are working to change this image, but there is still a lot of work to be done. Nurses in this country have worked long and hard to change the nursing image, again as you will learn from your studies, and we are still working on changing various aspects of it, such as the "sexy nurse" image which I hate. But again, Rome was not built in a day and neither will a change in attitude or culture be changed without a lot of hard work.
I would also like to add that what I am about to say is not a criticism, but rather an observation about the need to look at both sides of the coin to see that each comment does have its merits- yours, mine, and the people who have posted here. Just because a comment may offend us personally , it is only how something is perceived by an individual. As we are all different and have had different experiences, we need to work on these issues both within ourselves and together with others to overcome these barriers, obstacles, or however you want to label them.
I agree with you about the fact that the hospital corporations and respective governments are to be blamed for a great deal of the current situation, which is why I mentioned at the end of my post that something needs to be done about this situation. Unfortunately, the fact is that in this country alone, nurses are still working on overcoming their own differences, on such simple things as a minimum education level and duties at that level, that they neglect to put their full effort into looking at striving for unity ammong all, overcoming the challenges that we currently face as a group, and then, after all is said and done, working out these other differences. In essence, we are not looking at the forest for all of the trees, is what I am trying to say.
Finally, I am saddened that you characterize yourself as "a non-white (carrier of the diversity plague)." (Finally got rid of the bold writing!  ) Anyway, each of us has something that sets us apart and we should build on our strengths, and not our differences. Also, you do not have to *backs out slowly, then breaks into a full run for the exit* We need more people like you who are "brave" enough to stand up and address what they think is not right. kudos to you | | No. 82 |
Sep 17, 2009, 05:50 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze
Oh RNEducator4u, your post occurred chronologically right after mine, at least it seemed to on the queue... it was a response to a glut of other postings I had seen previously within the past few pages, not yours in particular.
| | No. 83 |
Sep 17, 2009, 09:44 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze Originally Posted by lloyd03 Are you against to a Foreign nurses especially Filipino nurses?
It's a shame to the whole nursing society that we as nurses are throwing bad things to our own colleagues.
We may be divided by our nations, cultures and races. But does this idea come to your mind that we should have unity because we are all member of a health care team no matter what you are and who you are and where your from or where you got your degree and so on and so fort. No man is an island and so no nurse as well. Team is always be a team remember that. Other nurses is not our enemy, the diseases itself is the one. And we should focus on that.
And in the end there could be only one winner, the patient him/herself.(you know what i mean)
This is not the money issue (or what so called the GNP) for the country they're working with. It is how you do your job well and get paid for that. They worked hard for that and so they have their own choice what they got to do with there money.
We are professional nurses, and so we should act like one. Let's end up fighting like a kid.
We need unity.
I would have a hard time communicating with the writer of this post. Especially if I were ill in a health care facility or hospital. You also are denying what American nurses have experienced and witnessed "They worked hard for that? and so they have their own choice what they got to do with there money? "We are professional nurses," aren't professional nurses required to be proficient in English? Or who are you talking about? Who is they?
| | No. 84 |
Sep 17, 2009, 10:58 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze
To karenchad -
very well said! It's kind of eerie reading this post and hearing all these nurses
with 20-40 years experience (I have 23) talking about how hard it is to get a
job. I'm in the same boat - out there looking for a job after finishing a travel
assignment. Now there's not much travel assignments available, so I decided
to stay home. But there's not much at home either! Well, at least we've got
company in this mess!
| | No. 85 |
Sep 17, 2009, 11:15 AM
 Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze Originally Posted by karenchad to tuttle13- you hit the nail on the head with foreign nurse problem. Their cultures (exception-Canadian, European) DO NOT speak up in situations where they have an obligation to their patient to. I had an 60 something patient with no clogged cardiac vessels but poor muscle function= poor perfusion and symptomatic( low BP, sweaty and the color of the bed linen)To my American experience, that patient needed intervention= a different medication line-up to help promote squeeze. So I notified her INDIAN Cardiologist DR- Dr Prissy pants/stethescope swinging from his neck and asked-politely What about Digoxin. He asked me what school I went to ( I graduated 30 years ago and what does that have to do with any thing) he told me" digoxin is a horrible drug" This is a suburban hospital, Interventional Cardiac unit and filled with NON American Docs, as I previously wrote- staffed by all new grads and foreign nurses you can barely understand. This doc reported me to my manager stating I was calling him incompetent. I don't know if this is lack of command of the english language/ clash of cultures- male dominance/lack of experience on his part/ or a psychiatric disorder(insecurity)on his part. I think it's psychiatric- he is a NUT!! My manager-young also with presumabley CVICU experience told me to be "cautious" and that this doc's wife was one of our Cardiovascular supervisors (throwing politics into the pot of feces) You mean to tell me as a CVICU RN this manager has NEVER made a suggestion or discussed treatment with a DOCTOR? That is what I pointed out to my american male manager- what a woose!! So we RN's are supposed to say to the docs- Oh Dr, your soo smart and strong to. NOT ON YOUR LIFE for this old american RN. POOP to that.
Unfortunately, this is where nursing is at. You can be very talented and skilled and have
many years of experience. Someone can have it out for you for no reason at all, they
are jealous of you because you appear more competent than them (doctor or nurse) and
all they have to do is report you to someone and you can be out the door for no reason
at all. Your patients may think you're the greatest thing since sliced bread and you may
be very good at your job but when the axe starts to fall, none of this matters. They (the
nursing administration) aren't one bit interested in your side of the story. Sad, isn't it?
| | No. 86 |
Sep 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze Originally Posted by karenchad If we fellow nurses can't understand these foriegn nurses can you imagine how a sick American feels post op following anesthesia on Morphine or percocet. They must feel like they are at the foriegn film fest without sub- titles!!!!
Also, have you noticed that most of the patients are caucasian and older, therefore come from an era where they didn't have to know a foreign language
to be able to communicate with a nurse or doctor. Then notice how many nurses and doctors are from somewhere else. Also, notice how many doctors
names are impossible to spell and very difficult to pronounce. What happened to Williams, Jones, Smith? Where are all the American born doctors whose native language is English? Why are they such a minority? Is it because foreign doctors get more advantages to go to medical school and practice in America than those from here? I don't get it.
| | No. 87 |
Sep 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze Originally Posted by cubby777 Unfortunately, this is where nursing is at. You can be very talented and skilled and have
many years of experience. Someone can have it out for you for no reason at all, they
are jealous of you because you appear more competent than them (doctor or nurse) and
all they have to do is report you to someone and you can be out the door for no reason
at all. Your patients may think you're the greatest thing since sliced bread and you may
be very good at your job but when the axe starts to fall, none of this matters. They (the
nursing administration) aren't one bit interested in your side of the story. Sad, isn't it?
Very well said. True especially if you do not belong to a very strong clique.
| | No. 89 |
Sep 17, 2009, 11:40 AM
Re: The RN Jobs Squeeze Originally Posted by S.Corder, RN Well, the healthcare system, run by business professionals, has lost its original direction. The business of healthcare now entails competition with the hospital in the next town, hiring as cheap a staff as possible and not caring who they destroy in the process. Patient care got lost in the shuffle. No nurse means to be racist or wants to argue about who has the better education. All we want to do is work. Personally, I am so tired about hearing about a nursing shortage I could cry--and have. All I want to do is work.
We have talked so much about our jobs and patient care. What about our own healthcare?
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