Protection against 'problem' nurses - page 7

Nurses fired for stealing drugs would get reported. So would pharmacists who lost their jobs for making repeated and serious mistakes. Also listed would be respiratory therapists who hit and abused... Read More

  1. by   LPNer
    The proprosal sounds like a good idea in theory. The data base would never work as intended.
    Let me explain my rational.
    I have never been turned down to any job I have ever applied for. (yea, probably just lucky)
    So, if I applied for a job and did not get it, I would have every right to ask why. If they said it is because I am in some data base, or refused to tell me why, I would pretty much assume that is why.

    I would want to know how it is I got into that data base. My civil rights and any old lawyer, would get that info for me pretty darn easily. Now, I have all the ammunition I need to remove that facility from the current owners posession, if you know what I mean!
    No, that data base would never work any more than true and correct checking with previous employers. Previous employers do not want to be the one to stand up and say... s/he did it, not even to a data base administrator for fear of reprisal, like loosing everything they have ever worked for as I mentioned above.

    The best choice we have is already in use, fingerprints.
    Both of my last two employers took my prints. I know for sure that the first one of the two checked with the state because we had to do them over again, 3Xs! because they couldn't be "read." I really don't know if, my current hospital sent them off for checking or not but they scanned my fingers, computerized, so my assumption is "real time" checking.

    Again, this only works if a prospective employee had been arrested and fingerprinted at some time in their life. But being arrested for unrelated offenses will not keep a nurse from getting a job. The offense would have to be relevant to the job, I am sure. So, old what's his name would have still been able to move from job to job until finally arrested (which is exactly what happened.)

    Let's face it, more legislation will not solve the problem, our liberal civil rights prevent it. Personally, I am glad I have my rights, but sorry so many Americans abuse those rights.
  2. by   maura66
    [QUOTE=RN34TX]`
    Had I not worked for an evil hospital and witnesed it myself, I'd call some of the postings here paranoia too.
    I want to separate the differences between my dealings with the BON and Group One. They are two different things. QUOTE]

    Exactly. I agree that what this "GroupOne" is doing is totally wrong. I just hate to see it brought into the mix with what the BONs are actually doing and what Senator Corzine has proposed (which, by the way, is old news since the Senate Session where it was introduced has ended. I believe it would now have to be re-introduced).
    I'm so glad I don't live in Texas. I feel bad for the honest people that live and work there.
  3. by   SAYLOR
    OH BROTHER.................if that is the case, why not start a list on Dr's, or bad lawyers,.........even politicians........
  4. by   RN34TX
    Quote from SAYLOR
    OH BROTHER.................if that is the case, why not start a list on Dr's, or bad lawyers,.........even politicians........
    Because those are all tight-lipped "Good-Ole Boys" clubs. A lot more difficult to get their colleagues to spill the beans and get any dirt.
    Nurses? No one admits it but they are often so starved for attention and recognition, in addition to taking work-related things very personally, it turns into a game of getting back at someone for giving them a bad assignment, etc. very petty little things that can turn into BON complaints and Group One blacklistings.
    Nurses don't stick together.
    Cops, MD's and lawyers are another story. They may even hate their colleagues but will seldom turn them in even if they do need to be turned in.
    Apples and oranges here.
  5. by   LilPeanut
    There needs to be a way though to report even unsubstatiated things. It's insane that people can know a person is bad or doing bad things but can't prove it and so is therefore legally prevented from telling anyone else. Maybe nurses should be on a probationary period when first hired so they can be more carefully observed and the employer can evaluate their performance.

    And think about it, if you have 20 years of immaculate work experience and the complaints from one person in one facility, most people will be able to realize that the claim is frivilous, but if every single facility you work at has similar complaints, well, that merits further investigation. Even if it is merely a matter of personality conflict, they have a right to know that in every facility you've worked in, you've not been able to get along with your supervisor. JMO.
  6. by   mydesygn
    Quote from mattsmom81
    Nurses are being reported for bogus reasons contrived for nothing other than vindictive purposes in my area of the country. Once the BOARD throws out an accusation (ANYBODY can accuse, but we must be proven guilty, remember??)it SHOULD have NO further merit!!! But this is not what I see...in fact, my experience is peer review committees are nothing more than finger pointing malicious bytches who try to mess with the livlihood of another nurse...over silly things they concoct up because they don't 'like' or want to 'get back at' a person. Lord what a vindictive profession I'm in...sometimes it is really hard to stay above it all. The nurses who are ON peer review in all the facilities I've worked at are hand picked for the role...which is to scapegoat nurses in my experience. This serves great purpose in today's facilities. I and several other 'nice', fairminded types have offered to serve on peer review quite a few times but have never been 'chosen'...No coincidence I'm sure..

    I put my competence up there with anybody elses but someone can really mess with your life in today's system...forcing us to hire an expensive attorney to defend these bogus claims...then the gossip and finger pointing continue even AFTER the BON expunges it....ridiculous.

    And we wonder why there is a nursing shortage?? I agree with the poster who says the worst enemy a nurse has is often another nurse...and it is a sad thing too.

    I realize that the posting originally started related to a "bad" nurse database. And a few years back, I would have been naive enough to believe that only "bad" nurses would be reported. Unfortunately, it has become my persoal experience that this does not happen. I have discovered that peer review is frequently being used in a punitive manner. Here's the difference: Susie is a "good" nurse, one day she inadvertently didn't calculate Intake correctly. You corrected her mistake after all she was really busy that day. However, a few weeks later Janie forgets to calculate the 8 hour total for an IV fluid, You decide to write an incident report because Janie should be accountable to her practice and she has been her long enough to know better. Well no one talks to nor helps Janie, pretty soon she has 3 minor incident reports, and finds herself in Peer Review. You get the picture... Nurses spend so much time blaming and criticizing those we don't like and excusing and protecting those we do that you cannot guarantee reporting that is fair and grounded in a desire to protect the patient. The fact that the BON has to throw out so many complints that lack merit is proof enough that we can not trust equitable reporting.

    Other "professions" such as police officers, firefighters, physicians etc.. do not report colleagues for minor and insignficant issues. My brother (a truckdriver) said himself " you don't mess with a man's livlihood, not without a real good reason" yet women feel no sense of compassion or concern for one another.

    I can only reiterate " the worst enemy of a nurse is another nurse". Until that stops, no database will weed out the "bad" nurses. After all, the bad nurse understands the politics, her "friends" will always excuse her -- she'll never end up peer review or any database.
  7. by   mydesygn
    Quote from allamericangirl
    do you mean sorority sister syndrome shouldn't be allowed to ruin lives past puberty? :chuckle

    nurses have no fiduciary duties and do not handle money or investments. their credit ratings should have no bearing on their employment. credit rating are determined in such an illogical way, and because of the way credit is scored, it has no connection with the integrity of the creditor.it is a very poor business practice and it is being made illegal in many states for insurance companies to deny coverage or to or base premiums on a persons credit scores. it is illegal to be refused a job because of bankrupsy. it is considered descrimination.

    you may misunderstand what she means by reporting agency. in dallas, there is a background screening service subscribed to by many dfw hospitals. it's called group one. in addition to providing employers with credit information, they perform miltary records, criminal background checks and employment history information. these employment histories are submitted by employers to the agency, they include information on salary, termination and reasons for termination. i know of two previous employees who were denied employment (one had already been offered a nursing position) after a group one report was obtained by the hiring facility. remember they are reading the termination reasons given by the previous employer. this reasons may not be valid or complete and a nurse may not know she has negative information in a group one report.
  8. by   CHATSDALE
    I disagree about that nurses are less likely to report incompetitent nurses...i have seen nurses who were allowed to work when the really needed to be written up a whole lot more...of course i have also seen doctors who worked through out their careers and nurses and other doctors would steer their friends and loved ones away from him while he went his merry way...
    i don't want any medium that would open it self to anon mud slinging but maybe their could be a counciling group...which could benefit the nurse to improve or get out..this would protect pt, protect liscensure of co-workers..and be a winner all the way around
  9. by   RN34TX
    Quote from LilPeanut
    There needs to be a way though to report even unsubstatiated things. It's insane that people can know a person is bad or doing bad things but can't prove it and so is therefore legally prevented from telling anyone else. Maybe nurses should be on a probationary period when first hired so they can be more carefully observed and the employer can evaluate their performance.

    And think about it, if you have 20 years of immaculate work experience and the complaints from one person in one facility, most people will be able to realize that the claim is frivilous, but if every single facility you work at has similar complaints, well, that merits further investigation. Even if it is merely a matter of personality conflict, they have a right to know that in every facility you've worked in, you've not been able to get along with your supervisor. JMO.
    I can see your point about establishing patterns with multiple employers but Group One and the employers in DFW don't operate that way.
    You could have 20 years of nursing experience under your belt and let's say 5-6 different employers in that time.
    It only takes one nurse manager to make derogatory statements about you on the database and that can disqualify you from employment at another hospital. I've seen it happen.
    I've tried to get friends hired on at my previous employer who are not hard to get along with or bad nurses, they just stuck up for themselves when staffing got dangerous and the hospital decided to get even with them and gave them black marks on their Group One report, so my hospital wouldn't hire them.
    Yes, over one lousy employers remarks.
    Employers who subscribe to Group One are not looking for patterns, they are looking for anything at all.
    It's frightening that one entity can have that much power.
  10. by   judy ann
    Maura66---I do wish that all BON have the apparent integrity of the NJ board. I was reported to the BON for giving an elderly man a hug--I had sexually harassed him. I am still fighting this complaint. :angryfire
  11. by   vickivicki1
    Quote from healinghandsRN
    I agree we need to stop the "problemed" nurse but also unsure of the best and most honest way it can be done to be accurate.....I can just see a terrible accident happening and the charge nurse has a personality conflict with u and turn around and cause all this trouble for u. This is what I see happening...If u have ever worked in acute care setting u will understand about the "politics"..and the other thing I think about is...the way they short staff us, God forbid something was to happen, They would be reporting us as being neglectful just to make us liable and not them for understaffing us. Although we need to find a system that will work to assure the "problemed" nurse is accountable, I think this proposal will be a horror for the staff RN's. I am proud to be an RN but unfortunately I know a lot of RN's are miserable to each other and try to get eachother in trouble for some reason EVEN when they have to lie and make up little stories...Believe me, I have seen it. I do not trust this proposal.

    I remember watching a Twilight Zone show once..........this man was going to create a way for all of the "evil" people to be exposed, at a certain time on a certain day, anyone who was "evil" would become two feet tall so everyone could recognize them. Well....as you might guess, He also became two feet tall. Anyone of you out there who hasn't walked past a resident's room who was yelling, only because their condition causes them to repeat certain statements over and over, is according to most BON's guilty of neglect......so watch who YOU call "evil".......what you may know to be a fact...........could be used agaginst you,..if someone wished to use it as such....We need to stick together........
  12. by   CCU NRS
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  13. by   mydesygn
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    I disagree about that nurses are less likely to report incompetitent nurses...i have seen nurses who were allowed to work when the really needed to be written up a whole lot more...of course i have also seen doctors who worked through out their careers and nurses and other doctors would steer their friends and loved ones away from him while he went his merry way...
    i don't want any medium that would open it self to anon mud slinging but maybe their could be a counciling group...which could benefit the nurse to improve or get out..this would protect pt, protect liscensure of co-workers..and be a winner all the way around

    Why do we rely on a committee (Peer Review) to do the job of a front - line manager. If you in fact have an incompetent nurse, then an effective and experienced manager will expose them and either fire them or report them to the board if they are incompetent. Managers are accountable to effectively evaluating the employeess on their unit, Peer Review in many ways releases them from this responsibility. Honestly, in 14 years of pediatric nursing, I have only encountered 2 nurses that I felt posed such harm to patients that they should not work as nurses. But in reality, most of the nurses we deem "incompetent" are not "bad" nurses but working in the wrong patient care enviroment (often some nurses do better in an ICU where less patient load and social contact more monitoring involved as opposed to a gen patient care unit) or they are poorly supported in the unit they are working (hospital systems are outdated or non-existent that would allow the nurse to concentrate on pt care and alert to any possible issues). There are some many options available such as improved education, one-to-one mentoring, reducing an indiviual to 8 hours shift, transferring to another patient care area, working on a night shift-- any of these options could be used by an employeer instead of reporting to BON. This would allow the time and oppourtunity for the nurse to improve wihtout resorting to such punitive measures. Remember everyday every nurse violates the nurse practice act in some way (usually minor), we need to support one another not blame and criticize.

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