Protection against 'problem' nurses - page 3

Nurses fired for stealing drugs would get reported. So would pharmacists who lost their jobs for making repeated and serious mistakes. Also listed would be respiratory therapists who hit and abused... Read More

  1. by   mattsmom81
    Nurses are being reported for bogus reasons contrived for nothing other than vindictive purposes in my area of the country. Once the BOARD throws out an accusation (ANYBODY can accuse, but we must be proven guilty, remember??)it SHOULD have NO further merit!!! But this is not what I see...in fact, my experience is peer review committees are nothing more than finger pointing malicious bytches who try to mess with the livlihood of another nurse...over silly things they concoct up because they don't 'like' or want to 'get back at' a person. Lord what a vindictive profession I'm in...sometimes it is really hard to stay above it all. The nurses who are ON peer review in all the facilities I've worked at are hand picked for the role...which is to scapegoat nurses in my experience. This serves great purpose in today's facilities. I and several other 'nice', fairminded types have offered to serve on peer review quite a few times but have never been 'chosen'...No coincidence I'm sure..

    I put my competence up there with anybody elses but someone can really mess with your life in today's system...forcing us to hire an expensive attorney to defend these bogus claims...then the gossip and finger pointing continue even AFTER the BON expunges it....ridiculous.

    And we wonder why there is a nursing shortage?? I agree with the poster who says the worst enemy a nurse has is often another nurse...and it is a sad thing too.
  2. by   Lemonhead
    The State Boards function under "Administrative Laws". They are not criminal courts, therefore to not have the "burden of proof" to discipline a nurse. They only need "evidence" to show wrongdoing. That "evidence" can be anything from a fellow employee's complaint to inaccurate documentation. It is KEY that we remember these points--not every nurse on those sites for discipline is "convicted" of a crime--they did not sit through a jury trial of peers and the Board DID NOT have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a nurse was guilty. It is up to the nurse, the accused, to prove innocence--and that can be virtually impossible if a nurse has not charted with 100% efficiency. And for anyone that says they follow their job to the law, NONE of us are superhuman.
    Nurses that have NOT been convicted of a crime can end up on the data base--right up there with Charles Cullen, and may be completely innocent or falsely accused..it could be you.
    The next time you look up a discipline report on a state web site, write to them and ask to see the entire report. You may be in for a shock...there are 2 sides to every story and to throw away each and every nurse that has been "accused", but never proven, to be guilty of wrongdoing is a fatal mistake. And Brian, if you are a leader on this site, you should completely educate yourself to these issues if your going to speak out on them. Thank you.
  3. by   Lemonhead
    This is from the data base website...sounds like a TV infomercial...
    And please notice--this data base--from the Federal Inspector General of the United States office, MAKES MONEY on this site--MAKES A PROFIT by charging for groups to view these sites...
    Yes, I'm all for making certain that we know who we are working with--but if the government was TRULY concerned about "alerting" institutions and individuals to "nurses gone wrong" they should not charge for it, nor should they need to advertise it no tackier than one of those "as seen on TV" adds..."Valuable, Easy and Quick, Query the HIDPB today!" (And again, please keep in mind, not everyone on this database has been criminally convicted of a crime, or even proven guilty of the complaint...)
    Read this and see what you think:

    Eligible for the HIPDB and Haven't Queried?
    See the Criminal Convictions You May Have Missed

    Practitioners involved in health care fraud and abuse can cost your organization millions of dollars, in addition to injuring patients. That's why querying the Healthcare Integrity and Protection Data Bank (HIPDB) is so important. The HIPDB is a flagging system that identifies health care practitioners, providers, and suppliers involved in health care fraud and abuse. Report information contained in the HIPDB alerts your organization to practitioners who should be more closely investigated, including those who could potentially cause major problems within your organization. View samples of practitioner report information submitted to the HIPDB in November and December 2003.
    Querying the HIPDB costs $4.25 per subject. The price of this query could result in saving
    your organization money, and preventing potential patient harm, if you avoid hiring or affiliating
    with any of the practitioners above. It is easy to query the HIPDB through the Integrated
    Querying and Reporting Service (IQRS), and responses to queries are received by users in only a
    few hours. Valuable, easy, and quick – querying the Data Banks is an important quality
    assurance tool for any health care organization.
    HIPDB CAN HELP MAKE SURE YOU HAVE JUDGMENT OR CONVICTION
    REPORTS ABOUT HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONERS – QUERY THE HIPDB
    TODAY!
    Last edit by Lemonhead on May 29, '04
  4. by   mattsmom81
    This sounds just like Group One stuff in my area. And of course our names tend to make it on these 'lists' if we are outspoken, don't necessarily follow the party line, or are union/organizing proponents...God help us!!. We are then blackballed as 'potential problems to the institution.' Employers will pay to access a special 'database' of info (which can be innuendo or opinion, not required to be factual or proven) through a protected third party. Who knows what really is being shared??

    Don't speak up or have an opinion that differs from administration, nurses, or they'll get ya on a database of some sort, even if its 'under the table'...all its gonna take is someone with a grudge. They can always 'find' something on us today if they look hard...like another poster mentioned. This is part of why policies are set up, so they can blame a nurse if she fails to follow it. And how many of us can follow policy 100% in today's workplace??? How many situations rely on independent judgment that don't fall into the policy perse?

    So many nurses stay meek out of fear. This is how we are controlled. Wish I knew how to effectively battle this....we've unwittingly become part of the problem. Nursing has become a dysfunctional nightmare of playing politics in today's facilities.

    Do I sound burnt? Yes I am...and experienced nurses I work with nod their head and agree with me in private...and whisper shared stories of what has happened to them and their friends. They know the truth. But they don't dare speak out. I speak out very carefully....I still need a job too.
  5. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from laughingfairy
    I think that will be the real problem. How often are nurses asked to leave a facility or fired for another reason because "proof" of a problem is not solid. I think that many people will slip through the cracks. I think that it can already be demonstrated with the back ground checks that are done for adult and child abuse registry.

    And I don't believe that unsubstantiated alligations should be part of any registry.

    I agree.

    I have known quite a few nurses who have been accused of mistreating pts, and it was not true. In 2 cases, CNAs were angry at the nurses for diciplining them, and made up stories about the nurses' behavior as revenge. In both cases, the stupid DONs believed the CNAs and fired the nurses.

    Only proven cases of wrongdoing should be listed through a clearinghouse.
  6. by   rnmi2004
    I think it would cause more harm than good. If anyone truly believes that by just working hard & providing the best patient care possible will prevent an innocent nurse from landing on one of these lists, then I have some lakefront property in AZ I'd be willing to sell. We live in a vindictive society, and a disgruntled co-worker or the ex-wife who is pissed that the RN won't violate HIPPA to tell how the patient is doing in rehab would not hesitate to retaliate.
  7. by   RN34TX
    [QUOTE=mattsmom81]Nurses are being reported for bogus reasons contrived for nothing other than vindictive purposes in my area of the country. (ANYBODY can accuse, but we must be proven guilty, remember??)

    Amen mattsmom81!!
    Are you only talking about the board of nursing or does this also include the ever infamous blacklist in the DFW metroplex hospitals known as "Group One"?
    I still do not know enough about that database that area hospitals use but I've seen it ruin a couple of fellow nurses careers and it scares me.
    I too, was naive enough to think "Well if you nurses would do your job competently every day you wouldn't have to worry about being put on some list." Boy was I wrong. Talk about being convicted without a trial.
    An ICU nurse of 15 years I worked with was put on it and couldn't get another job in town. He told me the list stated him as "poor performance" and nothing more. No details. He got into an arguement with an administrator and said that he quit (not in the middle of a shift) and she decided to get even with him. He now works in a long term care facility as no ICU in the area will touch him.
    Now I realize that in Dallas-Fort Worth, if someone tells you "You'll never work in this town again" ---they mean it!!
    Last edit by RN34TX on May 31, '04
  8. by   Haunted
    Let's revisit this discussion.
  9. by   BBFRN
    Quote from Haunted
    Let's revisit this discussion.
    Good idea. I'm prepared to eat my words (I initially thought it was a good thing). Form what I hear, Group One is causing major problems for a lot of very good nurses.
  10. by   CHATSDALE
    I am of the opinion that there has to be checks and balances...i don't believe that a nurses license should be lifted or suspended for unproven alleagations...
    iif that were put in effect there would be no need for these lists...facilities sweep things under the way because if they admit wrongdoing they are open to a law suit from a family who would trade a wore out old granny for a hunk of money anyday...
  11. by   maura66
    Quote from mattsmom81
    This sounds just like Group One stuff in my area. And of course our names tend to make it on these 'lists' if we are outspoken, don't necessarily follow the party line, or are union/organizing proponents...God help us!!. We are then blackballed as 'potential problems to the institution.' Employers will pay to access a special 'database' of info (which can be innuendo or opinion, not required to be factual or proven) through a protected third party. Who knows what really is being shared??

    Don't speak up or have an opinion that differs from administration, nurses, or they'll get ya on a database of some sort, even if its 'under the table'...all its gonna take is someone with a grudge. They can always 'find' something on us today if they look hard...like another poster mentioned. This is part of why policies are set up, so they can blame a nurse if she fails to follow it. And how many of us can follow policy 100% in today's workplace??? How many situations rely on independent judgment that don't fall into the policy perse?

    So many nurses stay meek out of fear. This is how we are controlled. Wish I knew how to effectively battle this....we've unwittingly become part of the problem. Nursing has become a dysfunctional nightmare of playing politics in today's facilities.

    Do I sound burnt? Yes I am...and experienced nurses I work with nod their head and agree with me in private...and whisper shared stories of what has happened to them and their friends. They know the truth. But they don't dare speak out. I speak out very carefully....I still need a job too.
    Gee, it really sounds like Texas has a problem. Come to think of it, the above post sounds like the direction our country is going in today. Hmm, come to think of it, aren't there are a few Texans in charge? So it's not just happening in nursing.
  12. by   marylyn_91604
    If managers,leaders,directors would just do their job and document and discipline ineffective/negligent staff--you wouldnt need this questionable data bank.
    The leadership nurses get paid very well,and this is part of their job.Instead of passing the buck,and trying to be popular,they should actually come to the units observe,and weed out the bad apples.Wouldnt that be nice??
  13. by   Crumbwannabe
    Sorry, but I gotta put the 2 cents in. Objective evidence must be on a credit report. The agency has generally 30 days to prove or dismiss. You hear all the time about mistakes having to be cleaned up.

    These agencies like group one are not necessarily working with objective data that can be validated, but rather value judgements and "who shot John" stories.
    They need some built in control. Good initial intentions can lead to atrocities as we well know from elected officials trying to protect us from ourselves, and interpret the Bible for us,and so on.

    Of course we're talking Texas here where a political favor owed, or a bottle of whiskey and a hooker can do a lot to bypass the justice system.... Read Smith County Justice.
    Last edit by Crumbwannabe on Nov 19, '04

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