Overall Cut In Wages Adds To Nurse's Furore - page 3

by lena h. sun washington post staff writer thursday, october 7, 2010 it was bad when washington hospital center fired 18 nurses during last winter's snowstorms. it got worse when the... Read More

  1. Visit  Luv2care0907 profile page
    2
    Quote from educationguy
    Your claims that a person making Points 2 & 3 are false, is incorrect. Health care legislation is not something that happens like turning on a light switch. These changes are going to take place over time. Since this situation happened to you recently, where no one explained to you that you had to enroll for heath insurance within a 30-day time period, these changes have not yet occurred. Just wait, though, because when these changes do come, companies will not be able to impose such limitations and use "tricks" to not cover employees.
    I could also give you my experiences with public health care. They do not pay as you would expect them to. They have a proven track record of getting out of taking care of people's real genuine medical needs. They further cause health care providers to produce mountains of paperwork or else, they will refuse to compensate the facility or agency. I don't feel compelled to keep giving more personal case examples of times when both Medicaid and Medicare set limitations on what they would pay; but suffice it to say that real life people suffered and continue to suffer as a result. I know of one person with Medicare that is paying $2000/mo for a nursing home. Medicare only covers 100 days.

    I personally believe that at least one solution is to limit these law suits to situations that warrant compensation. You know and I know that there are mistakes made daily in the hospital. I am not saying that we should throw caution to the wind where it comes to medical errors, but those things are going to happen and no matter what, 10 out of 10 people are going to die at some point. For example, why is an OB doctor sued for a Down's syndrome baby? That is ridiculous! Somebody has to pay for that.

    I will agree that some private insurances are corrupt and have corrupted the system. Socialized medicine is not the solution.

    I am not offended in the least at the fact that we disagree. I think it is good to hear both sides. I hope you aren't offended.
    lindarn and GM2RN like this.
  2. Visit  Luv2care0907 profile page
    0
    Not to get off on a tangent, but I recently downloaded The London Hospital from iTunes. I would recommend that to people in this society. I think the episodes I've watched so far give an example of the evolution of the hospital. You talk about people who were dedicated.....
  3. Visit  Luv2care0907 profile page
    1
    The stories I am going to tell you are not to generate sympathy but to educate you on what it is like to have public health care. I was on SSI at one time, that included Medicaid, for degenerative arthritis. I never thought, at the time, that I would take public insurance like that, but I was desperate. By the time I realized the need, private insurance was out of the question. Before that, I had traveled to the public hospital to seek help. I spent an entire day there and saw a curt intern that was ready for lunch. He saw my x-rays and with zero concern or empathy, told me that they would not do any type of surgery on me because I "wasn't in enough pain." Excuse me? Anyway, that's what they said. I cried all the way home.

    Then I thought about getting SSI. I applied and I couldn't believe it; I got SSI because by then I had bone touching bone in my L hip. I sought out a doctor and after much waiting doing the referral routine and being told even more that I wasn't in enough pain, I got the surgery. It required a lot of red tape and confirmations to prove.

    Then my other hip went bad. I experienced the same phenomenon. Only now, things were worse because Obamacare was on the horizon. So the doctor that was caring for me, who was all sweetness and kindness, turned a blind eye to me once he realized that I was a Medicaid patient. I was scheduled for Dec 2. On Dec 1st after making many plans, I get an unexpected call from their office informing me that I had not been approved for this surgery and sorry, but it would have to be postponed. I was not just a little upset and began making calls trying to cut through the bureaucracy of Medicaid. I did manage to get the surgery rescheduled to Dec 16. I went in that day to have a morning surgery. The doctor almost did not show up. It was 3PM before he got there. His office staff, because of that other little problem, indicated that the problem was the HMO that i had picked. So I switched HMOs for them. I went back for one follow-up. Then went for my second follow-up with the new HMO only to find out that they no longer take this HMO that they had suggested and tough, they wouldn't see me. Window slams shut. I never did get another follow-up appointment with them because he dropped out of Medicaid altogether. Let me tell you, when Medicaid isn't going to pay, these doctors are as cold and heartless as can be. The days of people caring are long gone thanks to all these government interventions.

    My children have Florida Kid Care. My 10 year old daughter was diagnosed with lymphedema in her leg. It is rare for a child to have. Long story short, after diagnosing the problem, there were no options available because this type of insurance doesn't cover any of the remedies such as massage therapy or ted hose. It covers a lot of well-baby fluff but nothing substantial when you need it. I do like their vision care. I have been very pleased with the doctor I have and the fact that they give them glasses for the year. But I have found the medical stuff to be sadly lacking.

    I have been forced into this position because private insurance is so expensive and the need was so great. I know what a lot of you are going to say. But, I still argue that we need something altogether different. The government is not the solution. They are constantly claiming that people are trying to scam them. So they use the few that do as a springboard to over-monitor the situation, overwhelm the doctors involved with paperwork, and compensate them very little for their trouble, which keeps actual people from getting help.
    GM2RN likes this.
  4. Visit  GQGomer profile page
    4
    Bottom line: SOMEONE has to pay for national health insurance...and that someone is ALWAYS the tax payer. Trust me, it won't be the "rich." It will be YOU. Re some comments saying this won't be socialzed medicine/national healthcare: oh yes it will. It's simply being done incrementally and being given a different name. BTW, it took Hitler about 5 yrs of slow, incremental changes before people started realizing what a mess he was making. That did not happen overnight. Likewise, in China, the one kid policy did not happen over night. It happened through a series of incremental changes over time. In both cases, the public was promised pie in the sky...the public was basically duped...and by the time they realized it, there wasn't much they could do about it. Moral of the story: be careful of what you wish...you might just get it...and it's probably not going to be anything like advertised.

    I've lived in 2 Euro countries and I've seen socialized medicine first hand. It stinks. Also, the US is well on its way to being Greece if these Democrats remain in office. You simply cannot keep spending money you don't have. It catches up. People need to start looking at the long term rather than the immediate benefit to them. We will ALL benefit if we look to the long term. This short-sighted greed on the parts of many average individuals is exactly what has put this country into such a mess. People keep voting in whomever it is they think will give *them* a freebie. It's catching up.

    Does it not occur to people that private industry WOULD be paying a lot more and treating employees better if the economy were doing well? Hospitals are generally private businesses and they are hurting in this economy just as much as everyone else is...and hence, not hiring, etc. Adding to the problem is most private businesses are on eggshells wondering WHAT new surprise the Democrats have in store for them to screw them more. Not exactly putting them in a hiring frame of mind. A free economy works well when government gets its paws off things. Unfortunately, the country is now being run by a bunch of old "Progressive" hippies (ie. far left whackos). Europe, BTW, is NOT a paradigm the US should follow. All those "freebies" there are bankrupting them AND they're not exactly free in the long run. For example, the average middle class person pays over 60% of their income in taxes in countries like Sweden. In Germany, for that "free" healthcare, the average middle class citizen pays ~15% of his/her income...making it no cheaper than here (probably more expensive there). Also, in most of Europe, there are LONG waiting lines for many procedures...sometimes, up to 2 years (ie. hip replacement, etc)...AND many of those countries are simply just cutting some procedures all together. You're on your own. Moreover, you can pretty well bet if this government takeover (and that's what it is) keeps up, nursing wages WILL go DOWN (much more so than with private hospitals). Remember what your mother told you: there's nothing free in life and if it sounds too good to be true, beware!!!
    IowaKaren, GM2RN, Luv2care0907, and 1 other like this.
  5. Visit  Luv2care0907 profile page
    2
    Excellent, Rachett. You are echoing my points. The salaries are already being significantly decreased in home health. It is a matter of time before we see this in the hospital setting. Think about this too. I am presently being depressed with a $16.50/hour salary. I have never been so ill treated in my life as a nurse. I am further blocked from any leverage to say, "This is unacceptable." I have to work an extra night to make up the difference. So if the hospital offered me a job at from $20/hour-$25/hour, it would be a significant pay raise for me. I would jump on that. But let's take the nurse making from $30/hour-$50/hour. Somehow those salaries have to be equivalent to a standard pay that the government deems an acceptable salary. But how to do that?

    For now, they are working with as minimal a staff as is possible in some places to keep these high salaries in place. But as these senior nurses are replaced with people like me, the trend will move incrementally toward a set salary. I have seen posts on alnurses from graduate nurses saying that they were barred from a hospital position. They had to take a job in home health. I guarantee that their acclimation to nursing is much different than mine was in 1980 where I was greeted with every possible benefit. They too will jump at the opportunity to make $20/hr.

    People need to be made aware of the fact that money does not grow on trees. It has to come from somewhere. The care in public health is only as good as is allowed. In my case, I forgot to mention that it was a hip replacement. I was declined a month follow-up from the physician because of all this bureaucratic red tape, the fact that the doctor quit the system, and the fact that in the end, he would not be compensated for his time.
    GM2RN and lindarn like this.
  6. Visit  PACNWNURSING profile page
    3
    Lets put another spin onto this cut in wages. There are many new graduates desperate for work. Will they not be willing to accept lower wages just to get their experience and foot in the door. It took me a year to land my first RN job. I was willing to work for any wage and hours and any place just to gain my experience in order to work in the area I really want to. I know I was not the only grad will to do this. Experienced nurses can and will be replaced by this glut of new grads. Here on all nurses there are a number of experienced nurses with high salaries being let go because of their salaries and these tough economic times. This trend needs to be tracked by the ANA to ensure the push for more nurses does not have an opposite effect on current wages and benefits. Some hospitals are taking advantage of this current economic environment.
    GM2RN, AtomicWoman, and lindarn like this.
  7. Visit  lindarn profile page
    1
    Quote from Ratchett the Hatchet
    Bottom line: SOMEONE has to pay for national health insurance...and that someone is ALWAYS the tax payer. Trust me, it won't be the "rich." It will be YOU. Re some comments saying this won't be socialzed medicine/national healthcare: oh yes it will. It's simply being done incrementally and being given a different name. BTW, it took Hitler about 5 yrs of slow, incremental changes before people started realizing what a mess he was making. That did not happen overnight. Likewise, in China, the one kid policy did not happen over night. It happened through a series of incremental changes over time. In both cases, the public was promised pie in the sky...the public was basically duped...and by the time they realized it, there wasn't much they could do about it. Moral of the story: be careful of what you wish...you might just get it...and it's probably not going to be anything like advertised.

    I've lived in 2 Euro countries and I've seen socialized medicine first hand. It stinks. Also, the US is well on its way to being Greece if these Democrats remain in office. You simply cannot keep spending money you don't have. It catches up. People need to start looking at the long term rather than the immediate benefit to them. We will ALL benefit if we look to the long term. This short-sighted greed on the parts of many average individuals is exactly what has put this country into such a mess. People keep voting in whomever it is they think will give *them* a freebie. It's catching up.

    Does it not occur to people that private industry WOULD be paying a lot more and treating employees better if the economy were doing well? Hospitals are generally private businesses and they are hurting in this economy just as much as everyone else is...and hence, not hiring, etc. Adding to the problem is most private businesses are on eggshells wondering WHAT new surprise the Democrats have in store for them to screw them more. Not exactly putting them in a hiring frame of mind. A free economy works well when government gets its paws off things. Unfortunately, the country is now being run by a bunch of old "Progressive" hippies (ie. far left whackos). Europe, BTW, is NOT a paradigm the US should follow. All those "freebies" there are bankrupting them AND they're not exactly free in the long run. For example, the average middle class person pays over 60% of their income in taxes in countries like Sweden. In Germany, for that "free" healthcare, the average middle class citizen pays ~15% of his/her income...making it no cheaper than here (probably more expensive there). Also, in most of Europe, there are LONG waiting lines for many procedures...sometimes, up to 2 years (ie. hip replacement, etc)...AND many of those countries are simply just cutting some procedures all together. You're on your own. Moreover, you can pretty well bet if this government takeover (and that's what it is) keeps up, nursing wages WILL go DOWN (much more so than with private hospitals). Remember what your mother told you: there's nothing free in life and if it sounds too good to be true, beware!!!
    Regarding nurses wages going down with the new healt care policy, this is ALL THE MORE REASON THAT NURSES NEED TO UNIONIZE, EN MASSE, TO PROTECT OUR PROFESSION AND JOBS!!

    If we continue the path of least resistance, the nurses have take since the beginning or time, we have NO ONE but ourselves to blame when hospitals have run over us, full steam ahead.

    There IS way to protect our jobs, livelihood, and profession- organize and have your wages, benefits, and working conditions, set in stone, in a contract- just like administration!

    JMHO and my NY $0.02.
    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    GM2RN likes this.
  8. Visit  PostOpPrincess profile page
    6
    Three physicians on my plan have told me they are dropping out of taking medicaid patients altogether.

    Because they are the best of the best, they are probably going to eventually drop out of medicare.

    To be honest, they do not to see them.

    And as for the social conscience, they are the same physicians who go to Haiti, Nicaragua, and perform care-often, about every three to four months. Out of their own pocket.....

    I asked them why they intend to drop medicaid patients...their response? 1. Not enough pay. 2. Sometimes goes wrong and it isn't their (doctors fault) patients don't HESITATE to sue...as with everyone else, of course. 3. Just not worth the hassle.

    This is the honest truth--and they don't care if they lose hospital privileges either....
    Luv2care0907, IowaKaren, GM2RN, and 3 others like this.


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