Outdated culture blamed for male nurse shortage - page 2

Outdated culture blamed for male nurse shortage Friday, July 16, 2004. 8:08am A nursing academic has blamed an outdated culture for the huge shortage of men in the nursing profession. Kim... Read More

  1. by   nocturnal
    :hatparty: always thought"clinician" was an appropriate term...as we are professionals, are we not??
  2. by   lindarn
    Quote from RN4NICU
    You misunderstood my point, I believe. Let me state a different way.

    I wasn't saying that nursing was an outdated culture. I was saying we live in a culture that seems to be very happy with its outdated ideas of what a nurse is and does.

    If you don't agree that we are granted less respect just because of the word "nurse", how do you explain the compensation gap (we won't even get into the respect gap) between NURSE Practitioners and Physician Assistants. Same responsibilities, essentially. Nurse Practitioners typically bring more experience to the table. Yet PA's, on the whole, outearn NP's by a significant margin.
    Many years ago, the Nurse Parctitioners that worked for the Long Beach VA, in Long Beach, California, sued the VA and won on that basis- that Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants did the same job, but the Nurse Practitioners brought more experience and had a Masters Degree. In other words, they ought to be making more money, and if they weren't, it was illegal. I do not remember the names involved or I would look the case on Findlaw.

    But yes, they won the case. They were being paid far less that the PA's, did the same work, had more education and experience, but THEY had PHYSICIAN before their name, not NURSE. It makes a different. If there are NP's out there who are in that situation, I woud get a lawyer and sue. It has been done.

    Linda RN
    Spokane, Washington
  3. by   finchertwins
    I do think there could be ways to bring more males into nursing by helping to rid the present day stereotype that women are nurses and male nurses are just women that shave(face). Do not get me wrong this is not what people in hospital thinks, nurses or pt. But it is what younger men/ teenagers think and keeps them from applying to nursing school. I can say this as both a nurse and a person that stayed out of nursing because I at the time thought it was a no man zone. I am older now and know that was bunk, but it is common in the younger population, it is changing but very slowly. Now on another point there needs to more nurses in the workforce no matter what their gender is. Well there is my two cents worth.
  4. by   Merlyn
    Did anyone bring up the subject of money. Why should men go in to a profession that demands so much for so little pay. I thought I was doing well after 35 years in nursing until my nephew graduated for college and makes the same as I do with Weekends and Holidays off, better benifit package and normal hours.
    Another thing, I hate to be sexist but working on a floor with all women is not good for ones ego. It's like one big Ophra Show. topics enclude:
    Why my husband/boyfriend/lovers is such a pig. Men need to get intouch with their femine side. Learning to cry. I need a hug and Hockey, who needs it?
    Listening to this day after day can really drive you over the edge.
    That is why if any young guy comes up to me a says that they want to be a nurse, I say "WHAT ARE YOU NUTS???"
    OK, Medication Time

    Rx
  5. by   RN4NICU
    Quote from Merlyn
    Did anyone bring up the subject of money. Why should men go in to a profession that demands so much for so little pay. I thought I was doing well after 35 years in nursing until my nephew graduated for college and makes the same as I do with Weekends and Holidays off, better benifit package and normal hours.
    Another thing, I hate to be sexist but working on a floor with all women is not good for ones ego. It's like one big Ophra Show. topics enclude:
    Why my husband/boyfriend/lovers is such a pig. Men need to get intouch with their femine side. Learning to cry. I need a hug and Hockey, who needs it?
    Listening to this day after day can really drive you over the edge.
    That is why if any young guy comes up to me a says that they want to be a nurse, I say "WHAT ARE YOU NUTS???"
    OK, Medication Time

    Rx
    Excuse me, but why should ANYONE go into a profession that demands so much for so little pay? You seem to imply that it's ok for women but why should men settle...
    one good reason is that a lot of the "big money" IT and business jobs are being outsourced overseas and those that look down on nursing are looking down on it from the unemployment line.
  6. by   Gromit
    Well, I cant speak to the money issue. It pays a lot better, with far better hours (on the whole) than my previous jobs -which range from printing press operator, paramedic/firefighter, truck driver to (now) Nurse (RN).
    I have no problem being called Nurse -hell, I EARNED it, I wear the name with PRIDE. (one look at me, and few would poke fun, to my face, anyway -haha. Even when NOT on my bike, I'm a pretty imposing guy, but I'm a big teddy bear. I love to have a good time -good clean fun. Always a laugh )
    I've experienced some of the bias against male nurses, though. Some of the older generation don't want a man to take care of 'em (they don't mind if its a doctor -but then I've yet to see a doctor wipe someones behind )
    But some (one in particular, but a couple of others to a far lesser degree) just plain don't like having a male as a fellow nurse. This one in particular was fine talking to me while I worked as a tech, but once I got my license, she hasn't said more than 10 words -and never returns a 'hello' or 'good morning' or 'have a good shift' etc. After a while, I just gave up trying to be openly nice to her, and now just follow her lead. I ignore her. I don't like doing that, but hey, even >I< can get the message, eventually. FORTUNATELY she is on a different shift, so we rarely run into each other. Last time I had to give a report (she was taking one of my patients) and the whole time, she never even looked at me, and turned her back to me as much as she could. I still gave a complete report, but I was glad to be finished with her, so I could give the other reports and get out of there).
    This can make for a hostile workplace. But wheather males like it or face it, or not, it IS still largely a female-dominated role.
    Back when I ran presses, and the occasional woman wanted to be an operator, and complained at the 'male environment' (most of these guys continued to speak as though she were 'one of the guys' -this held true in Paramedics, where it is largely a male role). 'Sorry, but unless they are out and out rude, you just have to deal with it' -well, I take the same advice to heart.
    By and large, however, I've been accepted as 'one of the crew', and I'm greatful for that. I always tried to make the opposite sex feel comfortable in work environments that were largely male -hey, you do the job, you should have the respect and all that goes with it -good and bad.
    -just my point of view.
  7. by   Ross1
    Quote from resqrider
    First of all I am a male and a nurse.
    Why is the term "male nurse" so stereotyped.
    Why can't there just be a nursing shortage.
    It seems that when the term "male nurse" conjures up a man that has an alternative lifestyle or can and might be slightly perverted. The term also conjures up the ideology that "men don't understand the women's health issues and may not know how to treat them. I for one am sick and tired of the stereotyping of us men who have taken up this most honorable and noble profession. Remember the very first nurses were monks in a monastary.

    I really don't consider it an outdated culture, I consider it a stereotype gone to far. :angryfire
    Hmm, not sure what to make of your comments. Perhaps I am reading too much into your quote, but what exactly do you mean by "alternative lifestyle " or "slightly perverted."

    None of the male nurses that I've known through the years were "slightly perverted" or had an "alternative lifestyle." Some of my male RN colleagues are gay and others have been straight (actually, most have been straight)....but I would hardly call any of them, whether gay or straight, "alternative" or "perverted".
  8. by   Ross1
    Quote from lindarn
    Many years ago, the Nurse Parctitioners that worked for the Long Beach VA, in Long Beach, California, sued the VA and won on that basis- that Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants did the same job, but the Nurse Practitioners brought more experience and had a Masters Degree. In other words, they ought to be making more money, and if they weren't, it was illegal. I do not remember the names involved or I would look the case on Findlaw.

    But yes, they won the case. They were being paid far less that the PA's, did the same work, had more education and experience, but THEY had PHYSICIAN before their name, not NURSE. It makes a different. If there are NP's out there who are in that situation, I woud get a lawyer and sue. It has been done.

    Linda RN
    Spokane, Washington
    Bottom line is politics. As long as PAs are part of the more powerful and male dominated medicine department, they will always be more respected and treated better then NPs. Many years ago, I worked in a long-term care facility that had a very large medical department with physicians and PAs. What I observed in the cafeteria said it all. The PAs always had lunch with the MDs whereas the NPs were part of the less powerful nursing department.

    It may not be right....it may not be fair. But if I was an RN contemplating going on to earn an M.S.N. and become an NP, I would seriously consider going to PA school instead where one can now earn an M.S. in P.A. An R.N. with his/her P.A. certification in my opinion has the best of both worlds.
  9. by   HeadStrong
    Quote from destinystar
    sounds like its time for a change. like nursing needs to get on the cutting edge and find a way to change its image. if we would only loose the word "nurse" that would be a good start. seems like males are attracted to similar fields such as paramedic, emt, radiology, respiratory therapy, physician assistant, etc. and i would attribute this possibly to the fact that the names for these professions do not sound as if they are gender biased. the "nursing" image isnt only a deterent to men but it is holding women down as well.hmmmm think i will start a pole and see what word we could use in place of "nurse" for our profession.
    i'm a big fan of the term murse to describe male nurses.
  10. by   danu3
    Quote from HeadStrong
    I'm a big fan of the term murse to describe male nurses.
    If you have not already, go to the poll I start on Murses in the polling forum. Also started a poll on Nurse name change too in the same forum.

    Results are interesting.

    So far, most people don't like it.

    -Dan
  11. by   HeadStrong
    Quote from danu3
    If you have not already, go to the poll I start on Murses in the polling forum. Also started a poll on Nurse name change too in the same forum.

    Results are interesting.

    So far, most people don't like it.

    -Dan
    That was what we call a joke, my friends call me a murse to bust my chops, starting a poll over it may have been a bit much. And as far as changing the "nurse" title, I believe we should all suck it up because that is what we are. A name change is a far cry from what we need to fix this shortage.
  12. by   Ion
    Conversations of a male nurse (me).

    Phone rings.
    Me: "Medical, this is nurse *****, how may I help you?"
    Caller: "Can I speak to a nurse please?"
    Me. "I am a nurse."


    Female medical staff talking about various aspects of personal life and body parts.
    Me: "Can you not talk about that?"
    Me. "Hey, there are really some parts of your body I don't want to see."
    Me. "Can't we talk about cars?"
    Me. "I'm not sexually offended, you are just sexually offensive; please put your shirt on."


    My friend and I were talking one day. He is a Roman Catholic Priest.
    Padre: "Sometimes with all the sex problems in the news now, I feel people think or are always trying to find out if I'm gay."
    Me. "Try being a male nurse."
  13. by   rsh3rn
    why am I called a "male nurse" I'm a nurse that just happens to have both x and y chromosomes. It irks me to no end when I'm introduced as Bob the male nurse

close