Only hiring new grads that are "cream of the crop"?

karenchad - you seem to have all the answers to all the problems. why didn't you go into management to clean up the "mess"? Let me guess? Only have an ADN? Is that why you are so critical of those of us who have BSN, MSN, MBA after our names?

Well I guess I'm just doomed to a life of substandard performance right out of the gate.

Damn it, if only I could've been a mediocre student... if only. I just knew I shouldn't have learned the material so well. Maybe I should've thrown a test or two or could've tried to fail the NCLEX a couple times.

Yeah, whatever.

Sorry, karen, but the unions care only about their members. And the nursing associations... who have NO power or authority at all? You're really advocating that we appeal to the very organizations who've been watching over the situation that has become so horrible as you describe?

It's very clear that your only concern is for yourself, not for those of us looking for ways to get into the game and prove ourselves.

Karenchad, you're ranting like nut (and I mean this in a funny nutty kind of way) but I sooooo get it and I have to give you kudos because you're on point.

I can't find a new grad RN job but I'm a working LPN. I'm sorry but I’m not working for free for any length of time unless I get something in writing promising me a guaranteed job with a guaranteed minimum salary at the end of my “residency.” This begging for work and accepting any wage or no wage for the privilege of working is going to bite us all in the butt real soon. This job is too hard and too thankless to work for free or at a wage that one could get from say being a receptionist or a telemarketer.

Being a nurse has been the most intense and interesting experience of my adult life. I like helping people and I like the adrenaline rush from that I experience on a daily basis. For me, this is the good part of being a nurse.


The bad is that on many days I feel like Atlas during my shift and I so look forward to be able to shed the burden of responsibility at the end of the day. I can’t imagine taking on this weight for less than what I make right now. I’m not paid enough as it is and if I had to take a pay cut of lets say 15% I would be done with it.

I’ve worked in jobs that paid less but on some days I was able to fart around with my co-workers, step out for coffee at will, pee when I wanted too….take an occasional extended lunch break etc. I NEVER have days like this as a nurse. I hit the ground running at the start of my shift and I work like a slave until report is given to the oncoming nurse. When I wake up in the morning after working evening shift I wobble and limp like a hooker who has been walking the stroll in stilettos all night. I also have anxiety issues about my performance that I have never had before. You may get a thanks from a patient every now and then but don’t ever expect one from your supervisors or co-workers. It just doesn’t happen. The only way you know if you are doing well is when no one from the “office” has anything to say to you. A good nurse is pretty much invisible.

Loving nursing is like loving the streets...you can love it but it don't love you back.

Besides, how can I work for love when the landlord and Sallie Mae are expecting cash?

I graduated from a 3 diploma program with a 3.4 and have never had a hard time getting a job because I don't have a BSN or a 4.0. I also worked as a nurse's aid in a hospital for the last 2 years of nursing school. I actually was offered a job in that hospital BEFORE I even graduated. Working in a hospital while in school definitely helps Also, grades, and degree don't mean anything if you don't have the goods to back them up. Just sayin...good luck!

That bears repeating:

grades, and degree don't mean anything if you don't have the goods to back them up.

You are so right on. I'm just sayin' that just because one has a degree and good grades doesn't make them an incompetent fool on the floor... except, evidently, in the hospitals that karenchad used to work in.

A good nurse is a good nurse regardless of their education or grades... and so is a lousy one.

Exactly. I have seen many a new grad haughtily enter a unit with grandiose attitude because they went to this school or that one, they have a BSN, blahblahblah. And many of them drown. Regardless of GPA, there is a certain " something" that a nurse must have and not everyone has it. I'm talking about instinct, compassion , empathy and selflessness. Those are things that cannot be taught. When I went into healthcare, I did it because I REALLY wanted to be a NURSE. That was 10 years ago. Today I think a lot of people are going into nursing for job stability and that's about it. I have also heard these same new grads say things such as, "I have too much education to spend my time wiping asses, " As a nurse, regardless of your degree, you must be willing to get your hands dirty. That being said, I have worked with some grads who are extremely gifted and I have worked with some seasoned nurses who just plain suck. It's all relative.

First all I'd be the first to say that a higher degree does not necessarily make a better bedside nurse; HOWEVER I cannot go so far as to say that the C students are better nurses as some have suggested....why was that? than the A students....are you kidding me?

Yes I was an A student....I was also a full-time mother, volunteer, and worked during my ADN program. Go getters are always go getters....the reality is that good grades may not translate into manual labor.....but managers of people know that good grades are hard to obtain and give them the respect they deserve. While I agree there are many obstacles to obtaining a nursing degree and it is hard....grades do count.....and should count.

It should always be the right person for the right job, that's why there is a probation period after being hired.

I have worked with a variety of nurses and the mix has produced both good and bad. Another reality is that BSN program clinicals are rarely as intensive as ADN clinicals; alternately hospitals with diploma schools probably turn out the best prepared (for work) nurses. Overall, wanting to be a nurse or anything for that matter may be a dream for some; but you have to have the chops both academically and physically to make it happen.

One other thing before I go to bed is that the BSN programs brainwash those kids into thinking they are the best...no one is the best until they have some experience....and it seems to many relish in the thought they have ONLY done (diploma, ADN, or whatever) and are better. Without school you will never have what they have....alternately, they are only some experience and a decent preceptor away from becoming a nurse.

Stop hating on the newbies, smartypants, and those who don't know any better. Everyone needs a hand when they start.

Okay obviously tired....hope I made sense.

I am sorry if some don't agree, but I do believe we need an entry level....and there should be a technical only level and a higher level. That's just the way it is..we are all suited in some areas better than others. I have obtained my BSN also with high honors 3.87 while working FT and another per diem job. It was damned hard; but I felt required for my aspirations and needed to encourage my own college aged children and co workers-no excuses. I am working on my third degree and plan to make that a reality too!

I did do well in school and might be considered "cream of the crop", and I am working as a staff nurse. I do believe however that a GPA should NOT be the primary means of determining who will be a good nurse.

I am also going to check out the link to the MSN debate regarding experienced v. inexperienced. I really believe that there is no classroom or simulation experience that can match the experience of actually working as a nurse.

I am also a bit confused about the desire of some of my classmates to rush into an MSN or DNP so that they can teach. Can one be an effective mentor/teacher with little to no clinical experience?

IMO, No. They're missing 90% of nursing; the person-to-person interaction. Persons with little/no clinical experience may be outstanding in the NCLEX world but this does not transfer over. There is a reason the term real world experience exists--things operate waaay differently outside of the ivory tower of nursing.