Nursing Student Blog Lawsuit - page 12

by libnat | 50,881 Views | 256 Comments

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  1. 2
    Quote from ivanh3
    Does it really matter to you if its fiction? That makes no sense. Someone can get online and write awful things like that, but it is okay as long as it was someone writing fiction to shock or amuse? If this were all some sort of gimmick then she should have known better.
    Nice try turning it around but you are missing my point. Several people here seem to 'know' the girl's personality, based on her blog, and judge if she is (in their opinion) fitted to be a nurse.

    Its only a blog. Thousands, if not millions of people create fake net personalities in order to shock and/or entertain. Its like saying Marylin Manson would never be a good nurse, the truth is - we don't know that for sure

    I realize my opinion is not going to be popular, so away I go.
    DaFreak71 and ToxicShock like this.
  2. 4
    Quote from Flatbelly
    Nice try turning it around but you are missing my point. Several people here seem to 'know' the girl's personality, based on her blog, and judge if she is (in their opinion) fitted to be a nurse.

    Its only a blog. Thousands, if not millions of people create fake net personalities in order to shock and/or entertain. Its like saying Marylin Manson would never be a good nurse, the truth is - we don't know that for sure

    I realize my opinion is not going to be popular, so away I go.
    Nobody is turning anything around. I understood what you were trying to say. I don't have to "know" anything about her except that she has spent a significant amount of time posting blatantly racist material. Only a blog? It is a public record of her words. Words as you may recall help us to communicate our thoughts. She either believed what she was saying or should have anticipated that others would believe she means what she posted. I see the former as only slightly worse than the latter.

    There is more to being a good nurse than having mastered starting IVs. It is reasonable to think that she meant what she posted. If so then it is reasonable to think she is a racist. It is therefore reasonable to anticipate that there may come a day when one her patients might not receive optimal care because of their race.

    Marylin Manson? Now who is trying to turn something around. M. Manson is a musician (and one my favorites), who beside some different clothing choices, has never espoused any racist agenda that I am aware of. I am sure he would make a great nurse.

    Ivan
    Last edit by ivanh3 on Apr 13, '09
    BBFRN, VickyRN, HM2VikingRN, and 1 other like this.
  3. 0
    Quote from ivanh3
    Umm, there is a big difference between being judgmental and a complete racist/bigot (I have seen her myspace page and her racism is evident).
    Are you REALLY lecturing ME on racism vs being judgmental? Heh, better check my picture on my user page...

    For everyone here that is defending this person, shame on you.
    Shame on you! We have freedom of speech in this country. That INCLUDES popular speech. No one is arguing that she should be out of the program due to the HIPAA issues but removing someone because of speech is plain unAmerican.

    Her "rights" were not violated. Case law going all the way to the supreme court has established that when there is a "clear and present danger" to the public you have to watch your mouth i.e. no shouting fire in crowded theater as a joke. Maybe its not clear to everyone, but allowing a racist nut job to be a nurse is a clear and present danger to the public.
    Shouting fire and racist rants are two separate issues. Notice they STILL allow Klan rallies... Holding racist views is NOT a danger to the public. Are you claiming all racist people are violent and dangerous? That would be incorrect...

    Only the court can determine if her rights weren't violated. You sir are no court...

    On a side note, I think her posts are horrific and disgusting. I'll still fight anyone to the death to protect her right to say it.
  4. 7
    Quote from Atheos
    Are you REALLY lecturing ME on racism vs being judgmental? Heh, better check my picture on my user page...

    Shame on you! We have freedom of speech in this country. That INCLUDES popular speech. No one is arguing that she should be out of the program due to the HIPAA issues but removing someone because of speech is plain unAmerican.

    Shouting fire and racist rants are two separate issues. Notice they STILL allow Klan rallies... Holding racist views is NOT a danger to the public. Are you claiming all racist people are violent and dangerous? That would be incorrect...

    Only the court can determine if her rights weren't violated. You sir are no court...

    On a side note, I think her posts are horrific and disgusting. I'll still fight anyone to the death to protect her right to say it.
    I was not lecturing you, only responding to you lecturing someone else. No, I am not a court, but show me where her rights were violated according to the constitution. Can you walk down the hallway of a hospital dishing out racial slurs and not get fired? Why not? Because the first amendment does not protect you from that. Should it matter if this happens off the clock or off the campus grounds? Maybe, except she posted it on the internet. Making it available to all including her peers, coworkers, patients, administrators, teachers, etc. Thats the same as standing in the hallway (IMHO). Again, show me where her rights were violated. I agree, she deserves her day in court, but my expectation is that she will lose big, but I have been wrong before.

    Yes, they do still allow Klan rallies, but with police escort. In other words there is a mechanism to protect the public. Speaking of police, are you really telling me that if she were a police officer, you would be okay with that? How is it any different for any other profession? Why should the police be held to a higher standard than a nurse. Both are in a postion with the potential to make decisions that are critical.

    No I am not claiming that all racists are a danger, but how do you know that in advance? Who in their right mind would take that chance on hiring someone who is going to be working in a critical area like nursing. As a veteran and former police officer, I can tell you with no uncertainty if those posts were made available to the military before she served, she would NOT have been allowed to join. Those views would also not allow her to be a police officer (for most departments, anyway). So why should she be allowed to be a nurse? Are you saying you know she is NOT a danger? Are you willing to take that chance for your family or the families of others? If she walked into your room as a nurse with a Klan shirt on to take care of your daughter you would fight to the death to protect that? If you were the administrator that hired her, and she did act out, how would defend your position if it came out that you had seen those postings before you hired her? Why should that standard be different for the school?

    Ivan
    Last edit by ivanh3 on Apr 13, '09
  5. 3
    Quote from ivanh3
    I was not lecturing you, only responding to you lecturing someone else. No, I am not a court, but show me where her rights were violated according to the constitution. Can you walk down the hallway of a hospital dishing out racial slurs and not get fired?
    I wasn't aware she was walking in the hospital yelling out racial slurs.

    Why not? Because the first amendment does not protect you from that. Should it matter if this happens off the clock or off the campus grounds? Maybe, except she posted it on the internet. Making it available to all including her peers, coworkers, patients, administrators, teachers, etc. Thats the same as standing in the hallway (IMHO). Again, show me where her rights were violated. I agree, she deserves her day in court, but my expectation is that she will lose big, but I have been wrong before.
    Point and case they will never address her 'Free Speech' because that's NOT why she got kicked out. She got kicked out for HIPAA and violating the honor code. Basically lack of judgment. In fact, I have no problem with the university kicking her out. She agreed to the honor code then violated it.

    My claims of free speech are directed only at those people here that think she should be denigrated solely because of her views. Which is wrong.

    Yes, they do still allow Klan rallies, but with police escort. In other words there is a mechanism to protect the public.
    Obviously you have never seen a Klan rally. They are NOT there to protect the public. They are there to protect the rights of the Klan. At the inauguration they had those silly people holding up anti-gay signs. The police circled them to protect THEM and their rights. Sure, I heckled them but I wouldn't tolerate anyone trying to stifle them any more than if they tried to stifle me.

    Speaking of police, are you really telling me that if she were a police officer, you would be okay with that? How is it any different for any other profession? Why should the police be held to a higher standard than a nurse. Both are in a postion with the potential to make decisions that are critical.
    I don't care WHAT a police officer posts on their Myspace page. I only care that they don't shoot me like in Oakland. Period.

    No I am not claiming that all racists are a danger, but how do you know that in advance? Who in their right mind would take that chance on someone who is going to be working in a critical area like nursing.
    You can't convict someone before they commit a crime. As a police officer you should know that...

    As a veteran and former police officer, I can tell you with no uncertainty if those post made available to the military before she served, she would NOT have been allowed to join.
    This is irrelevant. The laws are different for military personnel. Literally. There is a separate law. What the military would or wouldn't allow is a red herring and has no bearing on this case.

    On a side note, the military and police both have a long history of racial behavior AND allowing racists in their racks. And protecting them. The military has cleaned up well and btw... you aren't the only veteran.

    Those views would also not allow her to be a police officer (for most departments, anyway).
    Wrong. We won't even discuss the history of police and racism...

    So why should she be allowed to be a nurse? Are you saying you know she is NOT a danger? Are you willing to take that chance for your family? If she walked into your room as a nurse with a Klan shirt on to take care of your daughter you would fight to the death to protect that?
    Irrelevant. I find people that belief in religion to be a danger. Especially when they have acces to MY religious status. Doesn't mean I won't let them be my nurse. How do I know that they won't try to punish me? Shall we convict them before the act?

    If you were the adminstrator that hired her, and she did act out, how would defend your postion if it came out that you had seen those postings before you hired her? Why should that standard be different for the school?
    There is no position to defend. That is still irrelevant. We aren't talking employers. I made no claim that the university expelled her for her speech. THEY DIDN'T.

    Read their position...
  6. 0
    I don't know much about law but I do know that laws have to be interpreted. What exactly is the definition of honest, professional ect..? There are no specific words describing it although we each have our opinion on what those values mean to us. It's going to be hard to "prove" IMO.
    On a different note, I know that nursing is not glamorous and sometimes I want to cry in the hall. For someone to write the things she does and only be a student looking in, I can't imagine how she will think/act on the floor as a nurse. Who knows if that is how she would be~ people express themselves differently.
  7. 6
    Quote from Atheos
    There is no position to defend. That is still irrelevant. We aren't talking employers. I made no claim that the university expelled her for her speech. THEY DIDN'T.

    Read their position...
    Look, I hear you. I agree with you on many points. I am not trying to flame anyone. I have had 4 major careers in my lifetime: military, EMS, law enforcement, and nursing. I have lived in the deep south (lower Alabama) and the north (Chicago). I have seen plenty of open racism in every single one of my careers. Including nursing. Just browse this board; disappointingly, there is a lot of racism here on AN. I do understand that she was dismissed for school code violation. Maybe I misinterpreted your listing freedom of speech as point number one on your response to another poster. Certainly others on this thread have considered it an issue.

    Having said that, you might consider racist rants, or myspace postings to be irrelevant, and perhaps they are. As another poster commented, its just a blog, right? IMHO the are extremely relevant. This is not private speech. This is published view points. I feel that when anyone makes their opinion known like that it matters. To me it says, "I feel so strongly about this topic that I don't care who knows". Anecdotally, as a former police officer, my experience has been if someone is not afraid to vocalize, then they are more like to do things or take steps. I have no study to back that up, and I know that others experience might be different. If I know of someone who practiced hate speech publicly, whether it be on an internet site, or at a rally, I feel that is okay to take steps to insure that these people don't work in areas of critical importance. That won't stop racists from holding jobs like nurse or police officer. No measure would be 100 percent, or even near 100 percent effective, but that does not mean we roll over and don't try. I certainly am not suggesting that they don't have the right to post their opinions or attend their rallies. That, I do feel is constitutionally protected, and would stand right by your side to fight for that. In my mind however, that is different from saying, people can say anything they want and then hold a position of high responsibility. You mentioned Oakland. What if that officer had made some myspace rant, and someone had brought it to his commanders attention? Maybe, not definitely, perhaps not even likely, but maybe that would have made a difference and that officer could have been removed before it came to that point. Then he could get another job (maybe private security for the Klan) and then he could post what ever he wanted without fear of losing his job.

    Ivan
    Last edit by ivanh3 on Apr 13, '09
  8. 0
    Quote from ivanh3
    It is therefore reasonable to anticipate that there may come a day when one her patients might not receive optimal care because of their race.
    Right on. Or their religious beliefs or their beliefs about animal rights or whatever demographic Yoder harbors a deep-seated ill will towards. It would be more than embarrassing for a program to knowingly unleash a monster like Yoder unto the public, it would be irresponsible.
  9. 6
    Quote from drake'smom
    On the same type of note, a few people have been fired recently from where I work because they were trash talking the hospital by name on myspace.....some people just need to think before they type..
    Don't violate life's simple rules:

    Don't bite the hand that feeds you...

    Don't defecate in your own mess kit....
  10. 2
    My only hope is someone in that state has the sense to contact the BON to make a complaint. As such they could potentially keep a person such as this from ever obtaining a license.

    Rj
    VickyRN and twow like this.


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