Nursing Instructors Shot Dead by Failing Student - page 2

<<Associated Press report TUCSON, Ariz. (Oct. 28) - A student flunking out of the University of Arizona nursing school shot three of his professors to death Monday, then killed himself as dozens... Read More

  1. by   lee1
    Maybe nursing instructors SHOULD take heed. Much horizontal violence in nursing starts in nursing schools. The way that I hear nursing students talk about how their professors treat them is disgraceful. Just because medical students may have been treated this way years aso to toughen them up does not mean that nurses or anyone should be. My own children have finished university and NEVER have I heard them complain about their professors----yes, some are tough, others easier, that is life. Of course my children are not in nursing school either but the professors seemed to be more understanding, willing to be flexible, etc. etc. My own nursing training was many years ago and I don't remember being talked down to by a teacher. Respect works both ways. Years ago, your students were young, just out of high school. Now, many are change of life career adult students.
    Hopefully this was not the case with these professors but the letter from the shooter claims it was. Who knows the truth, only the other students and the victims.
  2. by   Q.
    Lee, I am sorry but even if the instructors were blatantly rude to this pathetic luzer, it still does not justify his blowing their heads off.

    I have known people to not be "warm and fuzzy" to me, even here on this BB; should I blow them away? And then sit back and have others say "well, maybe we should all realize that we should be therapeutic and not disagree and...."

    I say bullshyt. He was failing at the game of life, obviously, and he couldn't even live with himself. Nothing anyone would have done would have helped him.
  3. by   lee1
    Originally posted by Susy K
    Lee, I am sorry but even if the instructors were blatantly rude to this pathetic luzer, it still does not justify his blowing their heads off.

    I have known people to not be "warm and fuzzy" to me, even here on this BB; should I blow them away? And then sit back and have others say "well, maybe we should all realize that we should be therapeutic and not disagree and...."

    I say bullshyt. He was failing at the game of life, obviously, and he couldn't even live with himself. Nothing anyone would have done would have helped him.
    Absolutely nothing condones MURDER.
    But, I would want to know what professional help this obviously distressed student was receiving by the professionals who were trying to teach him and recognized that he was having problems.
    If nothing, why not?
  4. by   -jt
    from ANA website-
    press release:
    <<<
    Arizona Nurses Mourn Colleagues
    10/29/02

    Arizona nurses are mourning the loss of three of their colleagues who were shot to death by a student who was failing classes at the University of Arizona College of Nursing in Tucson. The gunman subsequently took his own life. The three faculty members who were killed Oct. 28 are Cheryl M. McGaffic, PhD, RN, CCRN, a clinical associate professor and Barbara S. Monroe, MS, RN, CCRN, clinical assistant professor - both Arizona Nurses Association (AzNA) members -- and Robin E. Rogers, MSN, RN, CPNP, a clinical assistant professor.

    "These were wonderful nurses and educators, and their deaths are a loss to the nursing community as well as to humanity," said AzNA Executive Director Marla Weston, ED, MS, RN. "What we're feeling here is a sense of absolute loss and grief."

    Said ANA President Barbara Blakeney, MSN, APRN,BC, ANP, "Our deepest sympathies go out to the family and friends of the victims as well as faculty and students at the university. As more details emerge, we will be working with the Arizona Nurses Association to assist in any way we can."

    Weston said that AzNA will be participating in any memorial that the university might have and is offering its support to nursing students and faculty who have been touched by this tragedy. >>>>>
    ###
    http://www.ANA.org
  5. by   Q.
    Originally posted by lee1
    Absolutely nothing condones MURDER.
    But, I would want to know what professional help this obviously distressed student was receiving by the professionals who were trying to teach him and recognized that he was having problems.
    If nothing, why not?
    It's not the nursing school's job to detect and treat depression. The job as an educator is just that, to educate. If in an adult program you have an adult who clearly is disruptive to the class, in my opinion he gets dealt with the way he was..either flunking or next kicked out of class.

    We place way too much responsibility on educators to not only educate, but to diagnose and treat. That is not fair. He was adult to made decisions. He also worked at the VA. Any time he could have sought help. He was an adult. He needs to be held responsible for his actions. The fact that he's dead isn't enough for me. We need to continually hold him responsible now and not look for excuses.
  6. by   oramar
    My guess is that right now a instructor has no recourse but report threats to security. Security is most likely a bunch of rent a cops. If you call the real cops and tell them there were threats made they most they would do is question the person and fuel the rage. Even if they booked him he would have been out the back door a few hours later. These colleges and universities are going to have to put systems in place so when threats are made students and professors can go thourgh a series of steps to protect themselves. You notice I am not worried about the guy passing and failing or what set him off. Nobody has the right to go off like this no matter what happens. There is no excuse. You can not give credence to the claims of these berzerkos. They build a paranoid fantasy in their minds that lets them off the hook for their own inadequacies.
  7. by   lee1
    Originally posted by Susy K
    It's not the nursing school's job to detect and treat depression. The job as an educator is just that, to educate. If in an adult program you have an adult who clearly is disruptive to the class, in my opinion he gets dealt with the way he was..either flunking or next kicked out of class.

    We place way too much responsibility on educators to not only educate, but to diagnose and treat. That is not fair. He was adult to made decisions. He also worked at the VA. Any time he could have sought help. He was an adult. He needs to be held responsible for his actions. The fact that he's dead isn't enough for me. We need to continually hold him responsible now and not look for excuses.
    YES, but what does your nursing license hold you responsible to???
  8. by   CMERN
    A fellow colleague of mine in Nursing School already had 2 degrees. One in Journalism, one in English. She stood and calmly etiquately informed instructors (in front of her whole class) that she (the student ) had never been exposed to the mind warfare that she endured to graduate from that program. She was one of the top 5 students, of our class. She graduated and works for a Local T.V. station, is part of their medical reporting team. I also I agree with the poster who stated after being "chewed" up in Nursing School there isnt any thing left to chew when you hit the market....:chuckle Yes, the Flores man has opened a can of worms.... watch and see how fast it gets slammed shut!!!! :imbar
  9. by   CMERN
    Ultimately ....Suzy K I agree with you... Perspective..thats the truth... what is failing compaired to dieing, or losing loved ones. what is "getting an education" compared to haveing quality relationships in life.. Its all in the prioritizing..at the very base this Flores had a prioritization problem...hmmm
  10. by   Q.
    Originally posted by lee1
    YES, but what does your nursing license hold you responsible to???
    I'm not sure what you mean by this question. As a future educator, my license holds me responsible for providing care within my scope of practice, as deemed appropriate. I hardly think as an educator, in an educator role, who probably by this time has a speciality area, it is within my duty or obligations to diagnose and treat nursing students. To suggest this not only puts an unfair responsibility on educators, but also opens the door to increased scrutiny and the likelihood of misdiagnosis on normal students. Do we really want our profs and instructors looking at students, trying to figure out if they are mentally stable or if this is a passing "thing," and then subsequently making judgements and taking action on that? Absolutely not.

    If an educator happens to be astute enough to determine that there is more going on with a student than what meets the eye, such as this obvious disruption, aggression, inappropriateness and self-serving attitude was really a cry for help, then God bless that instructor for putting the needs of the student body at large aside and tending to this student outside the scope of an education, but if she doesn't, well then as an adult, a person who is on the verge of cracking should seek help. Take responsibility for yourself! It seems to me that throughout this man's life, he has never taken accountability or responsibility for his choices in life, and instead chose to blame everyone and everything else for it. The man did not have problems with psychological illness, as far as we can see. This was simply a man who deserved to die, and he obviously thought so too, because he was a miserable failure.

    If the problems in a BSN program, and dealing with the common, everyday beuracracy of an university is enough to set this man off to premeditate and kill 3 unarmed women, then anything would have, such as it raining out during his picnic. Unfortunately these types of people, who are self-serving and feel that everyone owes them, do not have a handle on life nor do they value it. We can't stop it, other than starting to teach our kids that sometimes things don't go as we want, and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it but adjust. Instead of teaching our kids to file lawsuits, we should be teaching them coping skills.
  11. by   Mito
    I have to ask about the concealed gun permit? In Canada we don't have this, and for good reason. Yes, we have shootings and murder ,but this type of gun permit for those individuals wishing to use it in this way seems to me to make mass murder much easier.

    I am afraid that the old "right to bear arms theory" has once again proven fatal.

    Mito
  12. by   Roland
    that he would have been deterred from committing mass murder. Good thing that we have made narcotics illegal so that no one in the United States can become a drug addict.

    Here's a question that I have. Why is it that so many people SEEM to perceive nursing schools to be playing "mind games" with them. I'm not talking about being tough from an academic standpoint, but rather from a psychological standpoint? After all not every nurse needs to be able to function in intensely stressful situations (as one poster alluded to above with the nurse that now works for the TV station there are MANY jobs for nurses outside of acute care facilities.)
    Last edit by Roland on Oct 31, '02
  13. by   jtrt
    I know that there are a lot of professional jobs that require one to take a battery of psychological tests including personality, skills testing, etc....maybe professional schools need to do that to before they "blindly" accept a student into a program. I'm sick and tired of hearing all about dealing with the symptoms i.e. violence, gun control; we need to put more emphasis on mind control in the sense that we need to figure out ways that we don't put vulnerable people into situations where they might become frustrated and angry with aggression

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