Nurses oppose measure meant to ease their burden - page 2
SPRINGFIELD -- The ever-increasing demands of routine patient care are swamping some nursing homes in the state, and the Illinois General Assembly is weighing a measure designed to help them. But... Read More
Apr 6, '05Quote from stevielynnI am not sure what you are saying here Steph? Are in support of this legislation or not? Just wondering.It is all in the way you spin a story . . . . yeah, they are really trying to help us out.
You can take facts and spin them a certain way and make the story sound any way you want.
Be careful when reading anything.
Apr 6, '05Hey, how about getting rid of some of the freakin' PAPERWORK and letting us do our jobs instead?? :angryfire
Really.......sometimes I just can't believe I went to college for four years to learn how to be a nurse, which included understanding the scientific principles involved in medication administration. Yet some Joe Blow can waltz in off the street, take a medication aide class and be passing meds to patients in a matter of weeks (or DAYS, if it's an assisted living facility). It's downright terrifying to see these well-meaning but poorly educated people passing meds whose names they can't pronounce or spell, or for what purpose they're giving them........and even more so when it's YOUR license that's at stake!!
I used to work in assisted living, and I'm telling you we literally hired people off the street, taught them how to do basic care like transfers and toileting, then if they showed any promise at all they became "medication assistants"---three days of training in the med room, and they were out there on their own, passing meds to 50 or 60 residents. And not just Tylenol and cough syrup either.........they were giving insulin, digoxin, narcotics, you name it. The corporation even allowed them to give PRN psychotropics, although I insisted that they call me BEFORE they gave any of these meds---day or night---as I wanted to be sure they were giving them for the right reasons. ("Mrs. Smith is complaining because Mr. Jones in the next apartment is yelling at his TV......can I give him some Ativan?" )
Brrrrrrrr.........bad memories. :stone My point being, of course, that NOBODY should be passing meds except those of us who have gone to school long enough to know what they are, what they are supposed to do, and what to do if something goes wrong!!
Apr 6, '05If i worked at a place where they employed CMAs, they would only be increasing my burnden, not lessening it. I would spend my "freed" time worried that someone didn't get their meds. Easing a burden, don't think so.
Apr 6, '05I hope this does not fly in NY! Sad to say but passing my meds is the only way I can do a quick assessment on all my patients everyday. I can't see how becoming responsible for a med tech's actions could possibly ease my burden - I would be a paranoid mess all the time, & I guarantee this "free" time will be filled with more paperwork, not patient cares/interactions.
No thank you!
Apr 7, '05Quote from talaxandraPharmacists passing drugs in facilities? Wonder whose idea that was? Interesting. Do they think they can pass meds more cost efficiently than nurses? Beancounters really haven't noticed pharmacists are waaay more expensive than nurses??? or maybe they'll send their pharmacy techs out to pass meds, eh?They talked about that here a while ago, but with pharmacists as the dispensers. !
I sense a bit of a move towards that in some areas of the US as well...because they seem to want the revenue. Pharmacists are taking over immunizations in some facilities and outpatient clinics. They're checking BP'S, bone density, lipid panels, and counseling patients re meds; and moving into some areas previously reserved for docs and nurses.
Gee if pharmacy would pass all MY meds AND take all responsibility...hmm. Seductive thought...but likely my patient load would doublt to pay for this.
Altho I'd love for the pharmacists to deal with their ridiculous EMAR scanning systems and not me. :chuckle
Apr 7, '05Haven't read all the threads, sorry. But I thought most nursing homes had CMT's already. They do around here, at least..they take extra training to be Diabetic cert'd. Seems to work ok. If not them they use LPN's.
Apr 7, '05Quote from traumaRUsI agree...... if they keep getting non nurses to do our jobs, sooner or later they will learn that they dont need a 20 something dollar an hour nurse to do it, and WE will be phased out..... just something to think aboutI live in Illinois and as an ER case manager, I interact with many nursing homes. We do not have medication aides in IL yet. However, when I was an LPN in Indiana, I worked with medication aides. It was not something I liked, but rather something that was done for the bottom line. At some point, you have to say: "no more unlicensed professionals" doing our job.
Apr 7, '05Quote from NoCrumpingThing is, they have already tried this and learned that they DO need a 20 something dollar an hour nurse to do it because RNs have assessment skills that UAPs do not. Mortality and morbidity rates skyrocketed when RNs were laid off and replaced with UAPs.I agree...... if they keep getting non nurses to do our jobs, sooner or later they will learn that they dont need a 20 something dollar an hour nurse to do it, and WE will be phased out..... just something to think about
Apr 7, '05Quote from RN4NICUFor those who haven't read it I have attached the Linda Aiken study from JAMA.Thing is, they have already tried this and learned that they DO need a 20 something dollar an hour nurse to do it because RNs have assessment skills that UAPs do not. Mortality and morbidity rates skyrocketed when RNs were laid off and replaced with UAPs.
Apr 7, '05I don't think for a minute they are going to hire extra med-techs and keep the nurses at the current level. There plan is to hire cheaper med-techs and use less nurses, mark my word on that one.
I'm with you on THAT one, Tweety... they just try to make it sound good, as if they are attempting to help us out, but who would bear the ultimate responsibility? Us, of course. This sounds like when the docs took it upon themselves to train UAPs to undercut us nurses... thanks, but no thanks! We don't need their help.
Apr 7, '05Would the hospital assume legal responsibility if a tech gave an oral med and the pt aspirates, or pushes an IV med at the wrong rate, or if a required pre-administration assessment isn't done before the med was given, or if the med was simply the wrong med (pharmacy sometimes screws things up)? Or is this being done under the nurse's license?
If I were the RN I would not want a tech giving meds to my patients if I would be held accountable when something goes wrong. I don't know about this one. Its too dangerous for the patient. No offense to anyone who is a med tech but there are just too many things that can go wrong.
Apr 7, '05I remember reading a quote once that Florence Nightingale wrote regarding nursing going backwards if we fail to continue to make one progress after another. We are going backwards in nursing -- back when the docs were "the healers" and their "helpers" were women who fetched what the docs wanted. The women didn't need college degrees........just common sense. It's still a man's world, and women are still being utilized in that mindset. Sad, but from what I've witnessed in nursing the past eighteen years....we're going backwards........way back to the 1800s and beyond. :stone
Apr 7, '05Quote from Tony35NYCIt is done under the nurses license. The RN is ultimately responsible for all matters concerning patient care. Anything that the RN does not personally do is a delegated task (bath, VS, meds given by an MA, etc). Delegation of tasks (even if directed to do so by administration) is a nursing judgement and does not release the nurse from liability or the responsibility of making sure that the task is done right.A question
Would the hospital assume legal responsibility if a tech gave an oral med and the pt aspirates, or pushes an IV med at the wrong rate, or if a required pre-administration assessment isn't done before the med was given, or if the med was simply the wrong med (pharmacy sometimes screws things up)? Or is this being done under the nurse's license?