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| No. 60 |
Aug 23, 2009, 11:29 AM
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy Originally Posted by pinfinity um. no offense nurserivera, but if she does this I GUARANTEE she will find herself looking for another job within the week.
You can't guarantee that. It depends on the facility. Where I work, nurses are encouraged to fax a sample of the illegible order and the docs name to a risk management fax line. It's been done before, no one lost their job. When you have to pass an order around 5-8 nurses to decipher, on a continuous basis, that's not safe care, period. Most *risk management* programs will clearly tell you they are about identifying problems & finding solutions in a (and this is important) non-retaliatory and non-blaming/finger-pointing manner. And this non-retaliatory decree is protected by JCAHO.
| | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 61 |
Aug 23, 2009, 07:07 PM
Updated
Aug 23, 2009 at 07:33 PM by Tara Leigh
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy
PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!! There are not as many nursing jobs now, as in the past, because the MAs have taken our positions in Medical clinics,Physician Offices,etc. Therefore we are mainly relegated to hospitals and long-term care.{MAs are taking some of these jobs too.} MAs are allowed to give injections and perform EKGs,OUR DUTIES. The Physicians and Clinic Administrators Love this because they can pay 10.00/hr. instead of paying for a nurse. The Nursing Associations did not lobby Congress enough to prevent them from taking our jobs. We need a leader to take this cause to Congress,otherwise the MAs will be allowed to dispense medication then we are really COOKED!!! The Nursing Home Lobby is currently in Washington to support medication dispensing!
| | No. 62 |
Aug 24, 2009, 01:49 AM
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy
Tara that whole thing with Medical Assistants moving in on traditional nursing duties is sort of a "Chicken or the Egg" problem as i see it.
MAs probably never would have moved into these positions to begin with had there been adequate nurses.
There doesn't seems to be much shortage in nursing positions now at least in the VA/ DC metro area. And i get new email alerts every few days as new positions are listed.
The problem is they all want a minimum of 2 years hospital experience.
Again to me this seems to be is a catch 22. Hospitals don't want to risk hiring on a new grad because it costs so much to train them and then the retention rate past the first year is miserably low.
But in doing so they just end up leaving more positions unfilled which shifts the staffing strain on the existing nurses.... which in turn could help explain the low retention in new nurses.
I see it as a much more complex problem than "the MAs are taking our jobs!" or "the foreigners are taking my job!" or the ever popular "ObamaCare is taking away our jobs!"
All those positions seem too simplistic for such a complex problem.
| | No. 64 |
Sep 03, 2009, 08:15 PM
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy Originally Posted by EmilyLucille523 If they were smart enough they would do what some hospitals do now, if you are hired in their New Grad program then you must sign on for a 2 - 3 year contract.
But what is the penalty for not fulfilling the contract? Loosing a sign on bonus? The last I heard indentured servatute was outlawed so if you really want to leave you can.
To me I think the only way out is up. If nurses want to stay in the running they need to up the educational requirements. It is the only way they are ever really going to be considered true professionals. I myself am an ADN nurse but I still know the truth. It has been said before that you don't need a BSN to do the nurse's job. Well guess what, for a lot of nursing jobs you don't need an ADN either and hence their replacement with medical assistants. In the same way you don't need an MD to do primary care, so that some of those functions are now being taken over by nurse practitioners. It is just dollars and cents.
I come from a science background but I worked in business settings so I can think that way. If I was running any company, including a hospital or nursing home, I would always want to replace the high paid workers with lower paid workers wherever it was feasible. Hospitals need nurses to manage patient care, a medical assistant is not going to have the knowledge to make that safe. But, I would use as many care technicians as possible and encourage the nurses to delegate a lot and I see that happening around here now.
They are also upping the employment of nurse practitioners, no doubt because they can prescribe and bill for services and, therefore, are income generators as opposed to floor RN's which are expenses. The perk with nurse practitioners is that they can practice independently in a lot of places and they also know the nurse's job which means they can fill in there too. In some hospitals use of more nurse practitioners may cause problems with some physicians but in the end whatever structure generates the most revenue wins and this is cost effective. Especially if they can keep paying an NP a lower salary then a physician and not much more then a staff RN.
Now a position that was once an expense, floor RN, has the potential of being a position that is at least partially income generating. I think in the end this will turn out to be a nice way for hospitals to backdoor increasing reimbursement for nursing services which is currently a huge expense with relatively little direct reimbursement.
| | No. 65 |
Sep 03, 2009, 08:56 PM
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy
By the way I just had to comment on Reagan being a fiscal conservative. That is hilarious. Read your history books, he is the one that started the raid on Social Security. He promised to lower taxes and yikes after he made that promise had no way to pay for it until one of his advisors found a nice pot o gold to tap.
Back in those years I had some friends from China who knew more about American politics than I or most of my friends did. They said that the rest of the world's economy was closely hindged on the US's so they paid lots of attention to it. At the time I was a big Reagon supporter as was my current husband and we argued fearlessly about how wonderful Reagon was, how many jobs there were and how well we were all living.
Our friends from China kindly explained to us that the reason for our nice lifestyle was that our President had found a legal way to "charge it" to the next generations. I specifically remember one friend emphasizing that it was like our President "was charging up credit cards". I don't know about you but when I once charged up my credit cards I was living REALLY nice, that is until I charged them a little to high and then I was paying the consequences as we are now. Luckily, I didn't charge them so high that I could barely make the payment. Also luckily, I did not have to continue to charge them in order to appease unsavory characters I needed to help keep me elected to a position that I considered my place in society but that is another story.
| | No. 66 |
Sep 04, 2009, 04:41 AM
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy
The last place I worked at didn't cut nurses, but they were constantly short and that's how the manager liked it. That was in Mid-April and they were talking about a hiring freeze for RNs next year due to them anticipating being in the red (which was somehow our fault, as charge nurses, for not keeping the productivity up up up and working the nursing teams like dogs). They also reduced the size of the hospitalist team by not hiring new ones when a couple of them quit.
Anyways, then they turned around in early May and broke ground on a 35 million dollar mini-hotel on the hospital property for the patient's families to stay at for free if they wished.
Never mind Grandma is getting subpar care because the nurses and hospitalists are overloaded and overworked, at least the families will THINK she is getting awesome care, right? Cuz there's that mini-hotel there! I mean, what other hospital has a MINI hotel? Stroke of genius...
| | No. 67 |
Sep 04, 2009, 10:40 PM
Re: Nurses not immune to sick economy Originally Posted by misplaced1 But what is the penalty for not fulfilling the contract? Loosing a sign on bonus? The last I heard indentured servatute was outlawed so if you really want to leave you can.
To me I think the only way out is up. If nurses want to stay in the running they need to up the educational requirements. It is the only way they are ever really going to be considered true professionals. I myself am an ADN nurse but I still know the truth. It has been said before that you don't need a BSN to do the nurse's job. Well guess what, for a lot of nursing jobs you don't need an ADN either and hence their replacement with medical assistants. In the same way you don't need an MD to do primary care, so that some of those functions are now being taken over by nurse practitioners. It is just dollars and cents.
I come from a science background but I worked in business settings so I can think that way. If I was running any company, including a hospital or nursing home, I would always want to replace the high paid workers with lower paid workers wherever it was feasible. Hospitals need nurses to manage patient care, a medical assistant is not going to have the knowledge to make that safe. But, I would use as many care technicians as possible and encourage the nurses to delegate a lot and I see that happening around here now.
They are also upping the employment of nurse practitioners, no doubt because they can prescribe and bill for services and, therefore, are income generators as opposed to floor RN's which are expenses. The perk with nurse practitioners is that they can practice independently in a lot of places and they also know the nurse's job which means they can fill in there too. In some hospitals use of more nurse practitioners may cause problems with some physicians but in the end whatever structure generates the most revenue wins and this is cost effective. Especially if they can keep paying an NP a lower salary then a physician and not much more then a staff RN.
Now a position that was once an expense, floor RN, has the potential of being a position that is at least partially income generating. I think in the end this will turn out to be a nice way for hospitals to backdoor increasing reimbursement for nursing services which is currently a huge expense with relatively little direct reimbursement.
Your business acumen is excellent. I must ask however, what value do you place on education when you have just stated that BSN degrees are not so relevant, yet you value a Nurse practitioner as a profit turner. How do you imagine the BSN, or the NP gained her background and experience to stimulate profit growth?. One can describe health care as profit and loss - a frightening reality, but I think you must maintain the vision where, the key to a lasting organisation is the time taken to build loyal staff with competences- this being the "caviar" which managers choose to see as "bread and butter/" Competence, speciality quality care, knowledge are cornerstones in healthcare and further justify the institution's existence and place us in a first world position. Panicky, threats, cooptation and attacking nursing careers for nickle and dimes while executives still operate within a cycle of skilled incompetence as managers using nurses salaries as yardsticks to justify or attack their own system when they should be setting examples by a dollar a day salary scale, reeks of nepotism and cronyism. This economic downturn is being used not a way to generate new innovative ideas, but rather as ball and chain, controlling and demeaning through fear inducing techniques. If I were a sick patient in heart and kidney failure needing vasopressors, dialysis, hemofiltration and other life support techniques, I would not desire to be nursed by the "new income earner" - I would hope to be nursed- with that nurse possessing the vital skills, knowledge and human caring which is part of health care.
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