Nurses - Low Skilled Workers - page 11

no college? not necessarily a problem report points to 16 good fields for lower-skilled workers by andrea coombes, marketwatch last update: 7:36 pm et oct. 27, 2005 san francisco... Read More

  1. by   TheCommuter
    Admission to LPN/LVN programs is competitive.
    Admission to hospital diploma programs is competitive.
    Admission to ADN/ASN programs is competitive.
    Admission to BSN programs is competitive.
    Admission to MSN programs is competitive.

    Let's face the truth. Nursing is a good, rewarding, and respectable career pathway. If nursing did not possess enough beneficial aspects, then why do so many people across the nation wish to become nurses? This is the truth. The medical community may not think highly of nurses; however, little children often say that they want to be nurses when they grow up.
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    For everybody who thinks the difference between ADN vs. BSN are just theory classes:

    The ADN program in my community doesn't even require one math class.

    Yet with my BSN I've had to complete algebra and statistics, as well as quite a few more sciences: general biology, nutrition, chemistry & pathophysiology.

    Also, I feel like ADN's get screwed b/c most have to go to school full time for 3 years to get a 2 year degree, BSN's go 4 for 4, you know? Not to mention, they have to take the same boards.

    I do wish their was more unity in nursing and I believe that all the varying levels of education contribute to this inequality. However, healthcare is so varied and there are so many varied needs out there that we couldn't all possibily meet everyone's needs without these divisions and specialties.

    I think a lot of it boils down to a lack of respect for ourselves & eachother.
    ADNs must vary. I had to take all the above courses BUT stats...and my share of liberal arts courses, too.

    Tweaked a bit, my ADN should have been a BSN. We were required MORE credits for our ADN than any other AD program in that college. You are right; we were screwed in that respect.....but education-wise---I would stack up to you very nicely. Too bad the nearest BSN program was 90 mi one way---or I would have gone there. I spend a LOT of time and sweat and studying for my silly lil ADN degree.
  3. by   SmilingBluEyes
    And I respect myself very much...and so do my coworkers and even the Dr's I work with. Respect is EARNED, not given. Just because I am a nurse, I do not expect instant respect, OR lack of it and will have no problem pointing that out to anyone challenging that notion. Just ask my coworkers.....Respect? I spent years earning it, and it shows. Most of the nurses I work with are just as respected, if not more, than I am. (they have years and years of experience over me---I respect that completely). I also respect the doctors positions, as they have earned it..... Respect is something we earn, period.

    I think lack of respect is a societal ill in our country today, not just a problem in nursing.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Nov 19, '05
  4. by   marylyric
    Quote from lizavaca
    I am 27 and earned a BA and was half way thru my MBA before I decided to pursue a Nursing education. I feel like Nursing is the most difficult education I have faced. The thing about some people is that they measure intelligence with a test, research is now showing that success does not correlate so much on IQ but EQ : emotional intelligence....and I believe nurses are in tune with this...


    Thank you for responding with such understanding. I really value your opinion because you have other educational experience, from which to compare
    nursing experience. Good Luck in your career.
  5. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    And I respect myself very much...Respect is something we earn, period..

    Hey SmilingBluEyes,

    I really wasn't trying to make an overgeneralization (but I guess I did) of lack of respect, meaning all nurses. I just, and surely you would agree, I see so much posturing on this board and out in the field of this "rank" against that one, you know? I guess, I'm just trying to understand the phenomena as it R/T nursing. I want things to be better, not just for me but for all.

    I just think our subsets (whether it be LVN, ADN, Diploma, MSN, PhD and the various specialties) could be greater as a whole, if all were appreciated as a vital component. Guess I'm rambling. Does this make sense?


    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I think lack of respect is a societal ill in our country today, not just a problem in nursing.
    I agree.


    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Tweaked a bit, my ADN should have been a BSN. We were required MORE credits for our ADN than any other AD program in that college. You are right; we were screwed in that respect.....but education-wise---I would stack up to you very nicely. Too bad the nearest BSN program was 90 mi one way---or I would have gone there. I spend a LOT of time and sweat and studying for my silly lil ADN degree.
    I agree, education wise, yes, and probably surpass clinical-wise. My Mom was a Diploma Nurse and I'll never stack up to her abilities as a nurse. I'm just saying, I don't think you're given the credit you've earned and deserve for the work that you do to get your degree.

    I hope I didn't come across as being condescending in my view of ADN vs. BSN education. I definetly don't think the ADN degree is lil or silly.
    Last edit by Kelly_the_Great on Nov 19, '05
  6. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    I definetly don't think the ADN degree is lil or silly.
    The ADN degree is a wonderful accomplishment, and I applaud any nurse who holds one. The ASN degree is harder to earn than most baccalaureate degrees. Just talk to anyone who returned to school to earn an ASN after having previously earned a bachelor's degree in history, philosophy, sculpture, or some other major.

    My former instructor had a BA in history and couldn't land a job, so he returned to school to earn his ADN. He said that earning his ADN was one hundred times harder than getting the baccalaureate degree in history. The ADN is one of the most difficult associate's degrees that an individual could ever work toward.
  7. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    For everybody who thinks the difference between ADN vs. BSN are just theory classes:

    The ADN program in my community doesn't even require one math class.

    Yet with my BSN I've had to complete algebra and statistics, as well as quite a few more sciences: general biology, nutrition, chemistry & pathophysiology.

    Also, I feel like ADN's get screwed b/c most have to go to school full time for 3 years to get a 2 year degree, BSN's go 4 for 4, you know? Not to mention, they have to take the same boards.

    I do wish their was more unity in nursing and I believe that all the varying levels of education contribute to this inequality. However, healthcare is so varied and there are so many varied needs out there that we couldn't all possibily meet everyone's needs without these divisions and specialties.

    I think a lot of it boils down to a lack of respect for ourselves & eachother.
    This is why all schools should implement one standar requirement for classes. Here my ADN program requires 3 maths, 2 psychs, etc....

    What makes no sense is driving down the road and finding another school with less/more/different requirements, rather than the whole ADN vs BSN battle.
  8. by   RN34TX
    Quote from Future_RN_Jess
    This is why all schools should implement one standar requirement for classes. Here my ADN program requires 3 maths, 2 psychs, etc....

    What makes no sense is driving down the road and finding another school with less/more/different requirements, rather than the whole ADN vs BSN battle.
    But who would decide the standard?
    For example, the University of Texas system even varies from one campus to another.
    One UT BSN program only requires the basics such as one chemistry course, statistics, biology, 2 English classes, etc. while a second UT BSN program wants 3 chemistry courses (one in organic), physics, 3 college math courses, 3 english classes, etc. etc..
    It basically would take an entire extra year or more added on to the BSN program for me just to finish all of those prereq's for the second program.

    I'm all for one broadening one's horizons, but some of the BSN programs are getting a little carried away to actually "require" courses that serve to do little more than to provide for a "well rounded" education.

    I'd just hate to see people who think that physics, organic chemistry, and college algebra are essential for a BSN program to be the ones to standardize the programs.
    I did indeed "drive down the road" to find a school that didn't have a laundry list of math and science classes for a BSN degree and I have no problem admitting that.
    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to struggle through extra chemistry and physics classes while my co-workers not only get to bi-pass these classes at their school for the same degree that I'm going to get, but also end up graduating much sooner than I will, just so that I could have the satisfaction of saying that I struggled through more math and science classes than they did.
    Forget that.
    Last edit by RN34TX on Nov 20, '05
  9. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I get what you are saying Commuter. Thank you and no hard feelings!
  10. by   lindarn
    My DIPLOMA PROGRAM REQUIRED TWO SEMESTERS (NOT QUARTERS), OF ANATOMY AND PHYSIOLOGY, TWO CHEMISTRY CLASSES, SOCIOLOGY, PSYCHOLOGY, SPEECH, among other things. My BSN program required two more chemistry classes (organic and inorganic), pathophysiology, pathobiology, math, English, another psych class, statistics, etc. How did you get through a BSN program without these classes? Once again, more whining from nurses who continue to challenge the nurses' education program. Physical and Occupational Therapists also take classes on how to start a business,(included in their Masters, and now Doctorate programs), so that they can open up free standing PT and OT practices, from which they make ALOT OF MONEY, FAR MORE THAN NURSES DO. They also take physics AND calculus. They also make twice as much as nurses, and GET ALOT MORE RESPECT THAN NURSES DO.

    I also earned a minor in Physical Education, and took Anatomy and Kinesiology, and Exercise Physiology, (among other classes), and I too probably have almot 180 college credits. I have also maintained that nurses should also take these same business classes, along with marketing classes. Maybe then nurses will learn just how valuable their skills are in the marketplace. And what others are willing to pay for our knowledge and skills. I had to come to grips with this whem I became a Legal Nurse Consultant, and suddenly had to put a price on my services. It really opens your eyes.
    Once again, JMHO, and my NY $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  11. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Amazing how it's "whining" when it's an opinion that's not in agreement.

    Yet another thread to be turned off from.
  12. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lindarn
    My DIPLOMA PROGRAM REQUIRED TWO SEMESTERS (NOT QUARTERS), OF ANATOMY AND PHYSIOLOGY, TWO CHEMISTRY CLASSES, SOCIOLOGY, PSYCHOLOGY, SPEECH, among other things. My BSN program required two more chemistry classes (organic and inorganic), pathophysiology, pathobiology, math, English, another psych class, statistics, etc. How did you get through a BSN program without these classes? Once again, more whining from nurses who continue to challenge the nurses' education program. Physical and Occupational Therapists also take classes on how to start a business,(included in their Masters, and now Doctorate programs), so that they can open up free standing PT and OT practices, from which they make ALOT OF MONEY, FAR MORE THAN NURSES DO. They also take physics AND calculus. They also make twice as much as nurses, and GET ALOT MORE RESPECT THAN NURSES DO.

    I also earned a minor in Physical Education, and took Anatomy and Kinesiology, and Exercise Physiology, (among other classes), and I too probably have almot 180 college credits. I have also maintained that nurses should also take these same business classes, along with marketing classes. Maybe then nurses will learn just how valuable their skills are in the marketplace. And what others are willing to pay for our knowledge and skills. I had to come to grips with this whem I became a Legal Nurse Consultant, and suddenly had to put a price on my services. It really opens your eyes.
    Once again, JMHO, and my NY $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    If you think that all of the added chemistry, physics, and calculus in your nursing programs has made you a better nurse or human being in general, more power to you.
    But saying that PT's an OT's make double an RN's salary is grossly exaggerated.
    And how do you measure the amount of respect that they get as opposed to nurses?
    It's true that they get yelled at a lot less by MD's and family members, but... there are many more things that can go wrong with a patient that a nurse is going to be blamed for than a PT/OT.
    Does that mean that they are more respected?
  13. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I dont' see any whining here Linda. I do see an exchange of ideas that may disagree with yours. I am sorry you consider that "whining".

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