Nurses killed in France

  1. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html
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  2. 13 Comments

  3. by   explorer
    Will we have this same situation in the United States as our hospitals try to cutback?
    :angryfire
  4. by   Fiona59
    There does need to more security in ALL hospitals, facilities overnight. At my last job, security ended at midnight and even then our guard was in his 60's and very fragile looking. We used to joke that we would protect him.

    But part of the problem is that most of the public sees the geriatric population as harmless and doesnt understand the need for security in those type of facilities.
  5. by   tiroka03
    People don't realize that when electrolytes are off, changes occur. This happened at a hospital I used to work at. Once, a good sized man was admitted, I got punched in the face before I knew what happened. It was only by the grace of God I didn't punch back out of reflex. This man continued to wreck havoc for days. At one point he was fighting over a oxygen tank trying to throw it. Two guards and two nurse were trying to wrestle the tank out of his grasp. A couple of days later, back in his right mind, and right lytes, he was horrified at what he had done.

    A side note, I had applied a good amount of makeup and went to the library with my dtr the next day. I sat down in a chair to read a magazine and was approached by a policeman. He told me if I wanted to talk about what happened to me and look for help, that it was available. I guess the makeup didn't really hide the black eye as well as I thought.

    Seriously there are many times older people are violent, especially those who were abusive at home. People don't become docile just because they get old. Also changes in the brain r/t cancer ect can wreck havoc with a previously gentle person.
  6. by   CCU NRS
    At least this article gives a little more info, I saw the earlier on that just had a very brief article. I think it is just called two nurses murdered
  7. by   Jetman
    [QUOTE=Fiona59]There does need to more security in ALL hospitals, facilities overnight. At my last job, security ended at midnight and even then our guard was in his 60's and very fragile looking. We used to joke that we would protect him. [QUOTE]


    At the facility I work at we have two guys that work opposite nights, one that has only one eye and the other that has only one arm. Neither carry anything but keys. Good luck night shift.

    Jetman
  8. by   shell911rn
    I have worked at several different hospitals. The last hospital I worked in was a county facility and we had unarmed security personnel, but in large numbers who were very active in taking down unruly patients. Not to mention we often had quite a few police officers in the ER with police custodies. I felt pretty safe. Now, I'm in a new ER in another city and another county 17 miles away known for it's gang problem (just like the last hospital) and I hardly ever see a security guard in the ER at night or during the day. We don't even have one in the lobby (despite numerous complaints by triage nurses). And even if they were around, their hands are so tied by the law that they are worthless. They sent us to a course on managing assaultive behavior where they taught us "nonviolent tactics" that basically involve pinning a patient's limbs to the ground to control, yet none of which involved techniques such as self-defense like those that had been taught at a similar course in my previous hospital (which included techniques to avoid being stabbed in the head or choked to death, techniques I am glad to have learned). When I think about it, I still shake my head at the mediocrity of this course and at the difference in how seriously the security of patients, family, and staff are taken at this hospital. Recently, we had a jail custody's family member be informed by our unit secretary that he was in our ER. The family member threatened to bring his gang down to the ER. I was livid at the unit secretary for not using her head, placing this officer, our patients, their families, and staff at risk. :angryfire Luckily, the officer was able to call for back-up and the jail patient was promptly cleared of any medical problems and discharged for booking. The last hospital I was in had a policy against allowing family members to know that their family member who was in custody was even in our facility. I went to my manager at my new hospital and the policy was changed quick.

    If you go to county hospitals in Los Angeles County here in CA, there are armed police officers who are employed by the hospitals and I can recall while working as an EMT in the county these officers walking with their shotguns and weapons readily apparent. They meant business. It took a number of doctors being shot and killed at County-USC for armed police officers to be placed in these county hospitals. But it won't happen in private hospitals until something bad happens at each one of them.

    Michelle
  9. by   chris_at_lucas_RN
    Quote from explorer
    Will we have this same situation in the United States as our hospitals try to cutback?
    :angryfire
    I guess I don't see what this has to do with cutbacks.

    There needs to be good security and good lighting any place where people are who are made vulnerable either by their own condition, or the environmental situation (like dark areas with places in which to hide).

    When people who do good (nurses, policemen, pastors, etc.) or who are especially vulnerable (children, the elderly, the disabled) are attacked, we are offended even more than when others are. It's sad when it happens, and it says something about our society when the rate increases or the horror decreases.

    We had two nurses attacked here a year or so ago, best friends. One died, the other is a paraplegic. The attacker was the husband of one of them.

    I don't think the assaults here had any more to do with staffing ratios or other cutbacks than the attacks in France did, and to suggest otherwise is inflammatory and unnecessary.

    JHMO.
  10. by   explorer
    Quote from chris_at_lucas_RN
    I guess I don't see what this has to do with cutbacks.

    There needs to be good security and good lighting any place where people are who are made vulnerable either by their own condition, or the environmental situation (like dark areas with places in which to hide).

    When people who do good (nurses, policemen, pastors, etc.) or who are especially vulnerable (children, the elderly, the disabled) are attacked, we are offended even more than when others are. It's sad when it happens, and it says something about our society when the rate increases or the horror decreases.

    We had two nurses attacked here a year or so ago, best friends. One died, the other is a paraplegic. The attacker was the husband of one of them.

    I don't think the assaults here had any more to do with staffing ratios or other cutbacks than the attacks in France did, and to suggest otherwise is inflammatory and unnecessary.

    JHMO.
    What do you think caused the attacks in France?

    Union leaders faulted a staff and funding shortage. They said security had been a problem for months, dozens of jobs were to be cut, and violence at the hospital was a common occurrence.
    Last edit by explorer on Dec 27, '04 : Reason: Add Text
  11. by   Antikigirl
    Security??? What is this??? LOL!

    Our facility..assisted living has only security measures designed to keep residents safe..not staff (in fact, some of those features go against security for staff...like certain doors only available for residents key cards not staff)! The parking lot is 100 yards from the building in a very dark area, with no security cameras...if you park anywhere but that area your car will get towed at your expense (believe me...three caregivers got it when their husbands insisted they park close to the building for safety...caregivers lost and had to pay). Even residents will report staff parking elsewhere, even this one area that has 5 spots always available...park there and this one resident will have you towed in less than a half hour!!!!!! No warning!).

    Caregivers travel in groups to their cars, but the RN staff must report off and there is no one available to walk with by the time we are done! We use to have a night janitor, but they laid him off because of cut backs..now I have no one to walk me to my car at night...(I am currently trying to make a end of shift report protocol that allows for the nurses to leave at the same time as caregivers for this reason..wish me luck, they don't generally listen to us nurses).

    Over the past month alone...there have been 15 car break ins (windows broken..even unlocked cars!), and one caregiver who was late (so alone) was grabbed in the parking lot! Her screams scared the person who grabbed her...but she was faced with a run back to a facility only to find the nearest doors locked and her pass key didn't work in those doors!!!!!! She had to run scared out of her mind to the opposite side of the building to call police! (allowing the perp to get far away).

    For over 8 months we have begged, pleaded and at times demanded at least a security camera..oh we got one, a fake one for show that doesn't do anything..no recording no links to a screen..just a fake camera for show! They felt that was enough! Then they posted large signs saying they were not responsible for theft or damage to any posessions anywhere on the facility grounds! I guess by law that covers their liablity...

    On occasion I have had to walk this long walk alone in the dark..and it is scary! I place my keys outwards between my knuckles and walk far away from anything that can hide someone (bushes, trees, the building itself), and walk as fast as I can! Then my hubby insisted I not work swings for this reason...and I don't anymore, but too bad now it is dark at 0600 when I arrive! But at least in the AM I can wait a min till someone else pulls in so we can walk together!

    Our parking lot is near train tracks, and many times you can see gun shell casings around the lot! It is very dangerous, and the facility knows it...but they don't care! I guess they feel if someone is to get injured or killed, they can simply hire a new person to take their place!
  12. by   rsh3rn
    This sounds like an OSHA issue to me. safety has to be assured Many places I have worked at have had escort systems in place I was always told it was in the law books somewhere.
  13. by   explorer
    Quote from chris_at_lucas_RN
    I guess I don't see what this has to do with cutbacks.

    There needs to be good security and good lighting any place where people are who are made vulnerable either by their own condition, or the environmental situation (like dark areas with places in which to hide).

    When people who do good (nurses, policemen, pastors, etc.) or who are especially vulnerable (children, the elderly, the disabled) are attacked, we are offended even more than when others are. It's sad when it happens, and it says something about our society when the rate increases or the horror decreases.

    We had two nurses attacked here a year or so ago, best friends. One died, the other is a paraplegic. The attacker was the husband of one of them.

    I don't think the assaults here had any more to do with staffing ratios or other cutbacks than the attacks in France did, and to suggest otherwise is inflammatory and unnecessary.

    JHMO.
    This has everything in the world to do with cutbacks and inept management that doesn't care about anything but their pocketbooks. You can bet that if one of the managers was either raped or murdered that some changes would be made.
  14. by   PamRNC
    It is an OSHA issue:

    http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/workplaceviolence/index.html

    see the attached links for guidelines, your employers have to provide a safe work environment, and that includes the area in and surrounding your place of employ.

    I'm curious does anybody have actual policies on workplace violence, abuse, or sexual harassment? I don't mean worker - worker, or management - worker, but something that addresses patients/family members/visitors to staff.

    Any way check the website, there's also a good article in OJIN, try:

    http://nursingworld.org/ojin/topic25/tpc25_6.htm

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