Nurses attack 'shameful' training - page 6

SUE Jenkins says there are times when she is almost ashamed to be a nurse. A Queensland nurse with more than two decades of experience, she says she is increasingly witnessing horrific incidents... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from KMSRN
    I think we need to stop thinking in terms of nurse's "training". Dogs are trained, seals are trained, nurses are educated. Nursing needs to make BSN the entry level - there's just too much to learn in 2 years. And I agree with the intern idea or making the last semester of school all clinicals. Pharmacy and physical therapy are make a doctorate their entry level. Everyone is raising the bar except nursing - does not bode well for the future of nursing.
    Here we go again.
  2. by   mattsmom81
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Here we go again.
    Oh Lordy I was desperately trying to ignore that too :angryfire ....
  3. by   mattsmom81
    Quote from marymary
    You know Sue, you may have 25 years experience as a nurse, but in todays' nursing I wonder if you would meet the standards to be accepted into nursing school.

    Clinical skills can be learned on the job later...the first year post graduation in fact. So the next time you question or are critical of a nurse..ask yourself:
    "What kind of clincal skills did I have 25 years ago? Could I compete with 100 -200 students to get into nursing school? Would I be able to maintain the standards and still go to clinical and excel..while I am training with veteran nurses at clinical settings that do not want to train me?"
    This is another attitude I get from BSN grads...who wonder why I am not warmly encouraging towards them when their first question to me is 'Where did you graduate" followed by "Well it must be hard for you as an old diploma nurse to compete with today's university nurses. "
  4. by   marymary
    Quote from mattsmom81
    This is another attitude I get from BSN grads...who wonder why I am not warmly encouraging towards them when their first question to me is 'Where did you graduate" followed by "Well it must be hard for you as an old diploma nurse to compete with today's university nurses. "
    Almost similar to a LPN being asked where's the real nurse.:stone
  5. by   steve0123
    Sue Jenkins (the interviewee of the newspaper article referred to in the original post) is in the minority of nurses who disagree with the university model of nurse education. I have read studies that showed that while the nursing profession was split 50/50 on this model prior to its introduction, follow ups in the mid nineties showed that between 85-90% of nurses (in Australia) supported the move.

    I have no doubt that hospital training prepared very resourceful and practical registered nurses, and I would be happy to have had a hospital trained RN look after me or my family. However the health care system (and society) has changed greatly since those times. Most notably are the advances in medicine (which do impact significantly on nursing practice), gender equality (although nursing is still suffering the effects of decades of opression from the patriarchal medical fraternity), and society's demand for occupational expertise. University training is an inevitability for nurses in this day and age(and I do agree with previous posters that the bachelors degree as an entry level qualification should be reviewed).

    As for the matter of producing masses of useless nurse academics rather than clinicians - studies have consistently shown that within 12 months of finishing university, new graduates skills are comparable to those who undertook the older style training programs. Previous posters raised interesting points about nursing internships - some hospitals in my area have introduced these with varying success, although people I have spoken to claim that they don't get the experience of working in many areas (such as med, surg, psych, paeds, etc) as the internships tend to be streamed to a particular clinical area.

    I suppose that in the rush to professionalise ourselves we have lost many of the good things associated with the older systems (such as cheap nurses homes/accommodation, respect for seniority, etc).
  6. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from steve0123
    Sue Jenkins .....
    I suppose that in the rush to professionalise ourselves we have lost many of the good things associated with the older systems (such as cheap nurses homes/accommodation, respect for seniority, etc).
    It's been a few years ago, when I was first working on my ASNthat I did a paper for English Comp class and my sbject was "professional". At that time the simple definition was "anyone who is his own boss." Of course it was much longer than that but the jist was "own boss." The definition has changed greatly according to Merriam-Webster to that of "education and life-long carreer, heavy on the carreer."
    Such is life these days. Everybody wants a degree. The more folks with degrees, the less they make as compared to those with technical diplomas. Nursing is going through a phase striving for professionalism and sooner or later it will be realized it just isn't going to work.
    Yes, the advances in medicine have created a need for more education but it should be a slower education. Tiny steps will produce much more respect for us than trying to get there in one life-time.
  7. by   nursehew26
    I have to jump in here. This is my first time on this board, so I find this all very interesting. I am a Masters prepared nurse, but started out at the AD level. I used my clinical rotations to my fullest advantage, and was an excellent student with a 4.0 GPA. However, one can NOT be taught every SKILL needed to be on the floor. I never put an NGT in during school, neither did I in the real world. I also have to say....nursing is a science. It is not simply working in the hospital, and using skills. Nobody yet, from what I have read, has simply stated what higher education in nursing is about. It is about developing a theory base, a scientific nursing theory base. This can be used in any setting, and is not about "monkey skills". It isnt about learning how to take care of a trach, etc. Having a base as this allows us to practice autonomously, and be creative in our practice. Not every nurse out at the beginning level chooses to work in a hospital, we need to remember that. I agree, seasoned nurses must not "eat their young", which is happening more often than we would like to believe. I think everyone loses perspective at times with what is truly important - the patient! Dont let skills, or the lack thereof in new grads, dominate how you treat patients and coworkers.
  8. by   jax
    I don't like the phrase "monkey skills', I actually find it quite offensive. I use my clinical skills , whether is assessing a pt., placing a n/g tube, doing trach care, day in and day out - and my patients I'm sure are very thankful of my skills.

    I enjoy having new grads on the floor, their nervous energy is quite invigorating, and their enthusiasm is great. However, when an experienced nurse is placed with a new grad. shift after shift, and you are responsible not only for your care, but for assisting the grad and his/her patients it doubles the work load, and after a while is very tiring.

    I am sure this is one reason for experienced nurses leaving, the workload is too great.... Yes, I agree 12 months down the line the grads are self-sufficient, but they tend to leave after 12 months to broaden their horizons, (which I think is a natural thing to do), and the nurses left, hop on the never-ending merry go round again.

    I agree that we need to nuture our new nurses, but we also need to treasure our nurses that are always there for the new ones.

    Yes, I am old, tired, and hospital trained.

    jax
  9. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from nursehew26
    I I also have to say....nursing is a science. .
    for me, nursing is an ART as much as a SCIENCE. that is why I say ONLY BSN education need NOT be the entry-level for RN practice. I think there is room for other disciplines of study, coupled with a minimum AD preparation.
  10. by   KMSRN
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Here we go again.
    Oh Lordy I was desperately trying to ignore that too :angryfire ....
    It's a shame I can't post my opinion without a disparaging response.
  11. by   Farkinott
    Quote from KMSRN
    It's a shame I can't post my opinion without a disparaging response.
    Maybe you just need a thicker skin! :P
  12. by   KMSRN
    Quote from Farkinott
    Maybe you just need a thicker skin! :P
    Apparently.
  13. by   SmilingBluEyes
    KMS:

    Read: some of us are sick of the OLD BSN versus ADN versus DIPLOMA debate that is brought into so many threads that did NOT start out on this vein.

    And no offense was intended toward you personally. I did NOT mean to attack YOU just the message. I apologize if you are upset.

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