Nurses attack 'shameful' training - page 5

SUE Jenkins says there are times when she is almost ashamed to be a nurse. A Queensland nurse with more than two decades of experience, she says she is increasingly witnessing horrific incidents... Read More

  1. by   StephanieMc
    Quote from Dixiedi
    Maybe we can start with a simple forum here. Ask all who agree to add their 2 cents in an orderly manner. We are the experienced nurses who actually work with these folks. We are the ones who know. If enough of us voice our opinion and then carry these varied opinions to our DNONs, just maybe we can get something started. I have always felt there are more than just me, now we, we just have to find them and get organized!

    I am working through just such a situation right now. I am in home care so this inexperience does not affect as many patients on any given day, but the long term results will be so much more devestating for this one particular patient. The nursing shortage has forced agengies into hiring new grads. When I started in home care years of acute care experience was required. It's down right scarey! The things I have seen recently with more and more frequency.
    That is the sad part of this all Dixie. The patients are the ones that suffer from it. I tell you w hat is going to be my downfall before it is over with. About the time I hear another one of these new grads talk back to or disrespect another elderly patient and then come to the station and talk more junk....Im gonna lose it. I have heard so much of it from this new group of BSN graduates that were just hired and still in orientation on the floor. Im afraid it is going to gedt worse after they are away from their preceptor and on their own....now wittnesses.
    I remember hearing about home care and you had to have so many years experience. I remember they wouldnt hire new grads in ICU either. You had to have so many years on a med-surg floor at the least. Then you could go to ICU or CCU. New grads is all we get in orientation and they are depending on them. joke. It takes a good 6 months before they can be left alone and that is pushing it.
    I agree with trying to get a forum going here. Maybe someone has some ideas or if we put a few of ours and theirs together we might get somewhere. Its late and Im going to bed but lets talk more about this.
    Sweet dreams all.
    :zzzzz
  2. by   mattsmom81
    I believe in new grad internships myself...they are sorely needed today.

    And...be careful 'seasoned' nurses (myself included...LOL!) We are getting dangerously close to 'eating our young/ and the tirades will soon start...
  3. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from mattsmom81
    I believe in new grad internships myself...they are sorely needed today.

    And...be careful 'seasoned' nurses (myself included...LOL!) We are getting dangerously close to 'eating our young/ and the tirades will soon start...
    Oh Mattsmom, you are so right! I work with one girl now, 26, been an LPN for a few years now in home care. No acute care experience! She is driving me nuts! Doesn't have a clue about what TBI is other than the one other patient she has taken care of. A much more sever TBI. She knew my patient before his accident and tries desperately to "find" him in the all new "him." He remembers a lot from before the accident (acts like he didn't really like her then, but it's hard to tell for sure. My guess is he did not, she was one of his step-sisters' nurses) and remembers the accident. However, much has changed in his life and she can not accept it! Her nursing care is duplicate of the care given to the step-sister years ago. His injuries are not that sever! Oh! I am beginning to rant~
    If only she had a few years in acute care. She would know that nobody suffers severe trauma without change to the personality of some sort.
    We are our life experiences, that's what makes us who we are. His are no longer those of an upper middle class kid whose most traumatic experience is that of a then new step sister having an accident and TBI. At this point I must also realize that his only contact with TBI is that of his step-sister. It took me weeks to calm him enough to let him know he is not injured as severely as she is. OHHHHH It's quite complicated and I won't start ranting and raving here, I just wanted to say you are so right. I want to present this girl to the dogs for dinner! I say it that way becasue it has gone beyond any possibility of me calling her my young! LOL

    If anybody suggests I talk to the agency I'll let you know know. Done. Fruitless. They had the wisdom to call the parents! Can you believe that! The parents are in the same boat as far as understanding TBI. ANd the agency tosses this at them! Oh! I was horrified and so sorry for the parents that I had said anything to the office folk.
  4. by   fergus51
    Mattsmom, a lot of smart hospitals are offering new grads proper training nowadays. I have seen programs that run as long as one year and think they are a great idea. With a proper orientation, new grads can become valuable members of the team and we REALLY need them (cause I do not want to work that much OT!). The hospital I am at now does a 3 month orientation to our unit and we've had a lot of success with it. Some of the managers are actually saying they prefer new grads to nurses with experience in other specialty areas.

    Personally, I have worked with some great and some lousy nurses of all levels of experience. If I had my way all new nurses would be respectful and eager to learn and all the experienced nurses would be supportive and remember they were once inexperienced too.
  5. by   barefootlady
    I agree that there is something lacking in the education arena for nursing students today. I agree that a lot of new grads come into the work force thinking they will only do paper work, or that we floor nurses have the time to teach them skills we feel like they should have been taught in school. Any remarks we make about needing additional training or aquiring new skills is often met with resistance or refusal to do a certain task. Even HN want the more experienced nurse to do the "heavier jobs". I wish I could find an answer to this problem. I have tried to be supportative, to teach, to answer questions, and to be available when needed, BUT I have often found myself being used and favors not returned when I am pushed to the maximum. I know we eat our young, I know we are often labeled as complainers or trouble makers when we do bring this problem to the attention of HN/CN. I just don't know how to do things better or differently. I will be interested in reading the solutions others come up with on this board.
  6. by   llgRN
    The other day I was at a nursing seminar...lots of soon to be grads...that were hoping to be hired at the hospital where the seminar was being held.....and they had taken up almost all of the table space, with a few spaces in between...and sort a spread out. You got the picture....OK now I DO NOT think that when I come in they need to "part the red sea" for me, but the room was packed...but don't ya think they would scoot over for some of the nurses that they would have to be working with....NOPE...no way, even after asking them if the could please either scoot over or let some of us in the empty spaces....

    OK...so I sat way in the back...(not really a problem---I am farsighted lol)...but I do like to have something besides the floor to put my drink on..and a bit of room to balance what ever I am taking notes on....

    While I am at it...they also talked to eachother while the speaker was talking....

    Whew...thank you for listening.....
  7. by   fairyprincess2003
    Hey there,
    I finished my BSN in May 2003, and now a second degree in bio cnd chem. I wanted to add my input here. First, I think I received an amazing education. The instructors in UB school of nursing were remarkable. I could not have asked more of them.
    I do think that as a new nurse I felt very lacking in some skills, even things I had done before. I would think anyone would, and that there is a first time for everything. It is a difficult situation because the ANA wants to push more and more education, which means more time and investment(not to mention the 40000 I owe in loans) Anyone in this situation would feel a slap in the face almost when their education is not valued, or they feel they are expected to do RN work, CNA work, secretary work, etc. notice I said anyone, not just nurses. I don't think it is new grads have it in for older nurses or don't respect the profession. I do think it has a lot to do with confusion in our roles, and things like that. It hurts when you step on the florr and people say, oh you wasted your time getting a degree etc. Where is the value in education? Why should a nurse's education be seen with little regards? I think that maybe nursing programs are lacking in the clinical training that older nurses have, but you cannot blame it on the students. We are being pulled in so many directions and left wondering where we stand. In one ear it it is education, education, in the other ear it is this or that. It is hard to expect people to go to school even longer to get more clinicals. I don't know the answer to all of this, maybe there should be separate levels of nursing entry. I really don't know. I have seen amazing LPN's, ADN's and BSN's. I think that the ANA needs to get their act together and come up with some solutions and define more roles.
  8. by   mattsmom81
    Quote from llg2700
    The other day I was at a nursing seminar...lots of soon to be grads...that were hoping to be hired at the hospital where the seminar was being held.....and they had taken up almost all of the table space, with a few spaces in between...and sort a spread out. You got the picture....OK now I DO NOT think that when I come in they need to "part the red sea" for me, but the room was packed...but don't ya think they would scoot over for some of the nurses that they would have to be working with....NOPE...no way, even after asking them if the could please either scoot over or let some of us in the empty spaces....

    OK...so I sat way in the back...(not really a problem---I am farsighted lol)...but I do like to have something besides the floor to put my drink on..and a bit of room to balance what ever I am taking notes on....

    While I am at it...they also talked to eachother while the speaker was talking....

    Whew...thank you for listening.....
    I think we can write this off to youth and inexperience....but I agree this kind of thing can get folks off to a bad start for sure.

    I try to be extra kind to new nurses of all ages, but there are limits to what I can do for them on the job today and boundaries must be set...I can't do the work of 2 nurses today, plus train a new secretary/monitor tech and be in charge of the unit. Along with my own assignment. While we don't necessary blame the new grad, I can see how they may feel the stress of OUR overwork when this happens. Their expectation does not jive with the hospital/unit needs.

    If a year internship is what is needed to get these new grads functional, then I support that. It still seems to me the hospitals are doing the nursing school's jobs by taking over this role...but hey if they want to why not? Lets the schools off the hook. <shrug>
  9. by   fergus51
    I don't think they need a year, but we do offer a 3 month orientation (for both new grads and nurses from other specialties). It may not be "right", but it's smart.
  10. by   Lisanotar
    I am a new grad and not all of us are that disrespectful to others. I value the experiences, techniques and any helpful or new information that anyone can share with me. I try not to take things personally, but if someone is attacking me of course I will get defensive. If someone offers me constructive criticism I take it just as that, then apply effort to correct my ways.

    I am trying to prepare myself to be "throwen to the wolves", but all I want is to find a unit where I feel like I am part of the family. I plan on staying for many, many years when I find my home. I do not want to be jumping around for the rest of my career.
  11. by   marymary
    Quote from brian
    SUE Jenkins says there are times when she is almost ashamed to be a nurse.

    A Queensland nurse with more than two decades of experience, she says she is increasingly witnessing horrific incidents of poor nursing - which she believes can be blamed on the way nurses are trained in universities.



    "I have 25 years' experience as a nurse and after being poorly treated by nurses in hospitals on three occasions, I think the issue needs to be brought out into the open and discussed," Jenkins says. About 15 years ago nurses...

    Full Artcle: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...433521,00.html
    You know Sue, you may have 25 years experience as a nurse, but in todays' nursing I wonder if you would meet the standards to be accepted into nursing school.
    The public has no idea what nursing education is about today. It is not just clinical skills in the healthcare setting anymore, it is much, much more. We now must have a diverse education in all aspects of the client's health. If the physican slips up we have to catch the slip, if the physical therapist slips we need to be there to get the ball too....Clients are more aware of their disease states now, we have to explain in detail medications, disease process, therapy..etc. And in order to explain we need to know the basics; chemistry, microbiology, child psychology, statistics, computer science... I hope that you are following me.
    Clinical skills can be learned on the job later...the first year post graduation in fact. So the next time you question or are critical of a nurse..ask yourself:
    "What kind of clincal skills did I have 25 years ago? Could I compete with 100 -200 students to get into nursing school? Would I be able to maintain the standards and still go to clinical and excel..while I am training with veteran nurses at clinical settings that do not want to train me?"
    Don't be one of those "nurses that eat the young". Maybe you could be part of the solution...by becoming an instructor, do you have your MSN? If we continue to bash new nurses, no one will go into nursing.
    Last edit by marymary on May 27, '04
  12. by   Lisanotar
    Thank you marymary. You do see what I am seeing.
  13. by   KMSRN
    I think we need to stop thinking in terms of nurse's "training". Dogs are trained, seals are trained, nurses are educated. Nursing needs to make BSN the entry level - there's just too much to learn in 2 years. And I agree with the intern idea or making the last semester of school all clinicals. Pharmacy and physical therapy are make a doctorate their entry level. Everyone is raising the bar except nursing - does not bode well for the future of nursing.

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