Nurses attack 'shameful' training - page 4

SUE Jenkins says there are times when she is almost ashamed to be a nurse. A Queensland nurse with more than two decades of experience, she says she is increasingly witnessing horrific incidents... Read More

  1. by   mattsmom81
    Quote from Kingbandit
    I will be graduating in June from a good school. It is not the schools fault it is the students. They do not for the most part want anything to do with tough assignments. I know one girl who is turning down an incredible opportunity because it requires TWO weeks of training on the floor before going to the ICU. She does not have her priorities in line.
    I run into this a lot too..too many don't want to take the time to learn the ropes...they want a beeline right past the trenches. Sadly, many don't seem to have much respect for the work floor nurses do...and repeat snooty lines about how "THEY are on a NP or management or CRNA or_____ track, so they don't need to learn this bedside stuff."

    Academia seems to be reinforcing this attitude. Sadly, these types have been becoming our so called leaders. Definitely a problem in our profession IMO.

    But...how to change this? It's been coming about awhile and I don't see it getting better. SSDD.
  2. by   KibbsRNstudent
    Quote from earle58
    and to add insult to injury, the new nurses have absolutely no respect for the older, more seasoned nurses. no matter what, i always show (more) respect to those older than me, and that includes the nursing assts.! but yes, it's definitely not like the good old days...sad but true.
    Well..there is one student who loves and respects older nurses. ME! I have always had the utmost respect for older nurses. I wish i had been a nurse back when my grandma became a nurse. i wish I had been in the war with those nurses. I have always looked up to nurses my whole life. even now.
  3. by   rn3504
    Quote from Susy K
    Originally posted by RNPATL


    I agree and disagree with your statement above.

    I come from the mindset where I expect new graduate nurses to lack many things in order for them to function independently on the floor. What they receive in any nursing school (ADN, BSN, whatever) is just what you stated: the basics for beginning practice. The problem is that our profession (in part due to hospital organizations as well) generally treats these new grads like just another nurse to fill a staffing hole - and find their learning needs both an annoyance and a hinderance. And then the blame is shunted to the universities.

    Problem is, our profession isn't unique in preparing it's young as novices. Medical students, upon graduation, have a 4 year residency. Beginning law students (called Associates after graduation) certainly aren't expected to sashay into a court room and handle a case; they usually clerk or follow an experienced attorney around for quite a while. Even in the IT industy (which my husband works) newbees hired into his group start off by coding and then gradually move into more complex projects. Why does nursing demand to be different?

    My point is that I would lay the blame for our nurses's attitudes and our crash-course training on "the health care system" - that entire conglomerate of problems that, in my opinion, is responsible for all the problems in health care today from the high cost/low reimbursement to the focus on tertiary care to the nursing shortage.

    I am a fairly new grad from an ADN program and I agree to a certain degree but I also think that how good the new nurse is is based a lot on their inititive and drive to know more and be better. I was scared when I graduated but you have to go in with an open mind ready to learn. Believe me there was a lot of people that I graduated with that I think should have had a lot more instruction before allowing to go out on their own.
  4. by   Bubbles
    Quote from stevielynn
    I have a question. My husband's aunt, age 79, became a nurse at 54. She said in the 60's you could not go to nursing school if you were over 35. Now that sounds strange to me.

    Anyone have any perspective on becoming a nurse over 35 in the 60's?

    steph
    Several in my class of 1966 were older than 35 and one of the female students was a white haired grandmother! We had nursing shortages back then as now.
  5. by   mimi190
    I am 52 and know that all ages are considered when going to school for nursing...age discrimination law prevents them from not training you...you must be able to pass some test for being capable to lift etc...and be in good health...But she should call the league of nurses for a better answer. Best of luck ot you.
  6. by   fab4fan
    Nurses now understand not just what to do but WHY they are doing it. This is the essence of critical thinking.
    Wow...I hope that wasn't as insulting as it sounded. I went to a diploma program almost 20y ago, and we would have been booted out if we did something without knowing the "why."
  7. by   StephanieMc
    Quote from rn3504
    I am a fairly new grad from an ADN program and I agree to a certain degree but I also think that how good the new nurse is is based a lot on their inititive and drive to know more and be better. I was scared when I graduated but you have to go in with an open mind ready to learn. Believe me there was a lot of people that I graduated with that I think should have had a lot more instruction before allowing to go out on their own.
    I totally agree with what you have said. Some do need alot more training before being left on their own. I also think that the attitude of some of these new grads and just alot of the 30 and under group needs a bit of an adjustment. These new nurses have no idea what kind of work they are getting ready to get into. Nursing is HARD work. Physically and mentally. I have heard time and time again from the younger nurses "if things don't change I am going to quit and go into computers or something" There again they have come from the generation that everything has been handed down to them or done for them and are afraid of a little hard work. Nursing is busting butt work and 2 or 3 patients for 5 hours as a student is a piece of cake. When I graduated in 1978 we had 5 patients and were in the hospital for a whole shift several days a week and we had the more hands on experience then they do now and knew what we were getting into back then. I wish there was a simple answer or solution...but I am afraid there isnt. I know there are only several nurses I work with that I would want to take care of me and my family, and the ones that I wouldnt are the younger ones...that jsut dont care and complain all the time.
  8. by   fab4fan
    You know, university prepared nurses take umbrage at any insinuation from diploma nurses/ADN's that their education may be lacking, but just look at how they refer to their non-BSN colleagues.

    "Monkey skills?" All I know is that my patients are damn thankful for my clinical skills. I hardly think they would refer to them as "monkey skills." :angryfire
  9. by   RNPATL
    When I went to LPN school, back in the very early 80's (actually before AIDS). My program was affliated with the 3 year diploma RN program. We really looked up to those nursing students and really wanted to be just like them. I remember doing my night shift rotation on a very busy med-surg floor. The night charge nurse was a senior nursing student. I was in awe of her knowledge and ability. I have to say, the training that these kids were provided was terrific. When these kids graduated, they were nurses and knew what to do with little or no orientation.

    Now, there is good and bad about most things. The program, while it was wonderful in preparing the students to be nurses, really burned them out. By the time many of these students graduated, they were use to working 40+ hours a week and were tired and worn out. I knew plenty of girls that dropped out of nursing for many years, because they were so burned out. The hospitals really relied on these studnets to make up for staffing shortages in the core RN staff.

    In my opinion, there really needs to be a much better balance between clinical preparation and knowledge/theory understanding. Perhaps one day there will be.
  10. by   StephanieMc
    Quote from Dixiedi
    It was my understanding over 20 years ago that the university educated nurses would be the professionals. The hospital educated nurses would be the real nurses. Any hope of a balance between the two came to a complete halt when college bacame available to so many. The problem has mushroomed from there.
    Most of the new grads, (even though too many universities allow their students to "learn" they will be the boss, they will know all there is needed to know, etc) come out and quickly realize they really don't know diddly squat about the real world. They also learn what real nursing is. Real nursing is not what they wanted, they wanted a nice clean 9 - 5, after all, they are the professionals, isn't that why they went to college?
    I am not saying this applies to ALL college educated nurses, but it is the case with way too many of them, I've worked with them, ever so short a time that they survived! It's sad. Nursing education is holding us in a nursing shortage because these poor kids leave, nursing is not what they expected.


    I still believe all nurses should climb the ladder. CNA - LPN - diploma RN then if you want to get into management or more, ADN - BSN - MSN - PhD.
    AMEN!!!!

    Dixiedi....That is exactly how i feel and couldnt have said it better. I have my BSN from the "old" days, 1979 and trust me the kids graduating now under t he samed program, or what is suppose to be the same, are exactly as you stated "they will be the boss, they will know all there is needed to know, etc) come out and quickly realize they really don't know diddly squat about the real world. They also learn what real nursing is. Real nursing is not what they wanted, they wanted a nice clean 9 - 5, after all, they are the professionals, isn't that why they went to college?" So they can't or won't hang in there to learn. WHat is wrong with this picture?
  11. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from StephanieMc
    AMEN!!!!

    Dixiedi....That is exactly how i feel and couldnt have said it better. I have my BSN from the "old" days, 1979 and trust me the kids graduating now under t he samed program, or what is suppose to be the same, are exactly as you stated "they will be the boss, they will know all there is needed to know, etc) come out and quickly realize they really don't know diddly squat about the real world. They also learn what real nursing is. Real nursing is not what they wanted, they wanted a nice clean 9 - 5, after all, they are the professionals, isn't that why they went to college?" So they can't or won't hang in there to learn. WHat is wrong with this picture?
    God! I was beginning to think I am the only one who sees it! Honestly, I really was thinking maybe I should just let it go, but that option just didn't set well. I'm stubborn and when I know I am right, I just can't let it go. I just haven't figured out how to be part of the answer.
    Unfortunately, I will probably not be allowed to be part of the answer. For that, they will go to college educated nurses who, through reading what other academically inspired nurses have written will decide the problem stems from too little college education in the nursing staff.. It's vicious circle.
  12. by   StephanieMc
    Quote from Dixiedi
    God! I was beginning to think I am the only one who sees it! Honestly, I really was thinking maybe I should just let it go, but that option just didn't set well. I'm stubborn and when I know I am right, I just can't let it go. I just haven't figured out how to be part of the answer.
    Unfortunately, I will probably not be allowed to be part of the answer. For that, they will go to college educated nurses who, through reading what other academically inspired nurses have written will decide the problem stems from too little college education in the nursing staff.. It's vicious circle.
    No Dixie you arent the only one, but people have seen that it gets them nowhere by speaking their mind, other then blackballed so they have shut up instead of trying to get to gether and figure out a solution. I would love to be able to have meetings for just this topic. When we...as in someone that feels the way we do, goes to administration they are labeled as a trouble maker, but I can see why. The administration thins that they might have to get out on the floor and work...as in floor duty, get their hands dirty. And guess what...they have forgotten how, if they ever knew to begin with. NOw I am sure this will piss someone off and they will come back with I am "jealous" of their job. Let me answer that right now. Iam not, have never been nor will I ever be. I love my job as a "staff" nurse. I like knowing my hands have made a difference in someones life or that i tried to make a difference or was even there to help the families of someone that was dying or had already died. I consider family members as important as my patients and feel I need to treat them as well. I have a story about that too and how some of the "non compasionate" nurses I know treat family members, but I get really upset thinking about a patient we have now and the adult child has been taking care of her mother for many years and I have seen exceptions made in visiting hours for family, but because she likes to know all going on, the nurses dont want to answer...certain nurses that is so they ban her to exact visiting hours only. Well let me shut up now cause I am getting angry about it...and that involves some of these "educated" nurses we are talking about. I am with you Dixie I want to be part of the solution, so I am listening if you have any ideas that I havent already thought of. Ever experienced these new grads coming to the floor or unit and having all this book knowledge thinking they have all the answers? We both know how that turns out right? Straight to the DON or admistrator..."she hurt my feelings I was just trying to help" and then we get our balls busted!! Sound familiar? Oh Grwo up for pete's sake!!! Grrrrr let me shut up right now.
  13. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from StephanieMc
    No Dixie you arent the only one, but people have seen that it gets them nowhere by speaking their mind, other then blackballed so they have shut up instead of trying to get to gether and figure out a solution. I would love to be able to have meetings for just this topic. When we...as in someone that feels the way we do, goes to administration they are labeled as a trouble maker, but I can see why. The administration thins that they might have to get out on the floor and work...as in floor duty, get their hands dirty. And guess what...they have forgotten how, if they ever knew to begin with. NOw I am sure this will piss someone off and they will come back with I am "jealous" of their job. Let me answer that right now. Iam not, have never been nor will I ever be. I love my job as a "staff" nurse. I like knowing my hands have made a difference in someones life or that i tried to make a difference or was even there to help the families of someone that was dying or had already died. I consider family members as important as my patients and feel I need to treat them as well. I have a story about that too and how some of the "non compasionate" nurses I know treat family members, but I get really upset thinking about a patient we have now and the adult child has been taking care of her mother for many years and I have seen exceptions made in visiting hours for family, but because she likes to know all going on, the nurses dont want to answer...certain nurses that is so they ban her to exact visiting hours only. Well let me shut up now cause I am getting angry about it...and that involves some of these "educated" nurses we are talking about. I am with you Dixie I want to be part of the solution, so I am listening if you have any ideas that I havent already thought of. Ever experienced these new grads coming to the floor or unit and having all this book knowledge thinking they have all the answers? We both know how that turns out right? Straight to the DON or admistrator..."she hurt my feelings I was just trying to help" and then we get our balls busted!! Sound familiar? Oh Grwo up for pete's sake!!! Grrrrr let me shut up right now.
    Maybe we can start with a simple forum here. Ask all who agree to add their 2 cents in an orderly manner. We are the experienced nurses who actually work with these folks. We are the ones who know. If enough of us voice our opinion and then carry these varied opinions to our DNONs, just maybe we can get something started. I have always felt there are more than just me, now we, we just have to find them and get organized!

    I am working through just such a situation right now. I am in home care so this inexperience does not affect as many patients on any given day, but the long term results will be so much more devestating for this one particular patient. The nursing shortage has forced agengies into hiring new grads. When I started in home care years of acute care experience was required. It's down right scarey! The things I have seen recently with more and more frequency.

close