Nurses attack 'shameful' training - page 3

SUE Jenkins says there are times when she is almost ashamed to be a nurse. A Queensland nurse with more than two decades of experience, she says she is increasingly witnessing horrific incidents... Read More

  1. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from fergus51
    I wonder if we can ever really compare patient outcomes relating to nursing care in different eras? I don't know if patient care from nurses resulted in better outcomes then or not.
    With all the advances in meds, equipment, procedures it would be just about impossible, if at all possible to decide if pt care outcome is better now. When I got out of school, meds were in a cabinet in the medication room. We took however many we needed from a bottle of a couple hundred or so and put the rest back on the shelf. We used medication cards to pull the meds and pass them out. The advances in just this one area frees up time, reduces error and makes for less stressed nurses. Pt care outcomes would have to have improved and that wouldn't have anything to do with education.

    Better nursing care always results in better pt outcomes.
  2. by   RNPATL
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    But to say that this generation doesn't have the same work ethic isn't true in my experience. Sure there are plenty of lazy new grads coming from nurses school, and they make the majority of bright eyed ready to learn and work new grads look bad. But when I look around me at work, the laziest one with no work ethic is in her 50s. I'm not going to judge an entire generation based on a few of lazy baby boomers I see. Nor an entire class of new grads either.
    I have found this generation of nursing students and new nurses to be amazing. We just finished with a class of senior nursing students on our floor and they were terrific. Yes, there were 2 that really did not seem to have a clue about what they were doing in nursing, but all of them were motivated, bright and really worked hard during this clinical rotation. Like you, I refuse to judge a whole generation of people because of a few lazy, unmotivated people.
  3. by   mattsmom81
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy

    I think in the old days it nursing school might have been more clinical oriented.

    I remember posting a post many months ago about how our hospital takes RN graduates and uses them as secretaries and most of the replies I got were "what's the problem with that".
    Yes Tweety, 30 yrs ago I attended my diploma program and I was actually a competent new RN upon graduation. Teamleading was a rotation for me as well. Not that I knew everything upon graduation,, but I knew how to function and what my role as a nurse was...also knew about 'real world' nursing because it was actually (gasp) part of my training. I COULD and DID 'hit the ground running' at graduation.

    Those who value classroom over practical see no problem with nurses graduating who never started an IV or placed a NG tube, but these tasks are part of our job and I personally think its sad some BSN proponents call these 'monkey skills' and devalue those who are competent in these areas. Some think its OK to graduate and THEN go to the job and expect the practicing staff to do what the school should have done...train and prepare them to do the real work.

    I think its sad that new grads would be used as secretaries because that is all the practical use they are. Something is wrong with an educational system that graduates nurses like this, IMO. Personally I don't have time to teach and supervise new grads who have such extreme deficits. Do you??
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on May 12, '04
  4. by   trent
    I posted this on another thread, but I'll post it here too:

    Getting on my soapbox...

    As nurses in the workplace, when you see a student or new grad who is lacking knowledge, please help them to learn AND think about writing to/speaking with the school that they attend(ed). How are nursing programs going to improve unless you let them know where their weaknesses are?

    Getting off my soapbox now...
  5. by   RNPATL
    Quote from trent
    I posted this on another thread, but I'll post it here too:

    Getting on my soapbox...

    As nurses in the workplace, when you see a student or new grad who is lacking knowledge, please help them to learn AND think about writing to/speaking with the school that they attend(ed). How are nursing programs going to improve unless you let them know where their weaknesses are?

    Getting off my soapbox now...
    Time for my soap box then .....

    We have many students on my unit and often hire new graduates. Many of the seasoned and experienced nurses do a lot to help out these newbies and nurture their development. I can say that in my career as a nurse, I have always gone the extra mile to help transition a new graduate to the ranks.

    Let me tell ya .... the lack of training is no surprise to the students, the instructors or the schools. It is also no surprise to the hosptials or other health care employers. I have been on any number of college advisory boards and can say from first hand experience being on these boards that the colleges are far to worried about law suites to worry about what type of skills these students are developing in nursing skill. The principle here is, let's graduate a nurse that has basic knowledge and he or she must acquire additional skills and knowledge from their employer. The liability issue is then transferred to the employer and not the college. Ok - off of my soap box now.
  6. by   Tweety
    Quote from mattsmom81
    Yes Tweety, 30 yrs ago I attended my diploma program and I was actually a competent new RN upon graduation. Teamleading was a rotation for me as well. Not that I knew everything upon graduation,, but I knew how to function and what my role as a nurse was...also knew about 'real world' nursing because it was actually (gasp) part of my training. I COULD and DID 'hit the ground running' at graduation.

    Those who value classroom over practical see no problem with nurses graduating who never started an IV or placed a NG tube, but these tasks are part of our job and I personally think its sad some BSN proponents call these 'monkey skills' and devalue those who are competent in these areas. Some think its OK to graduate and THEN go to the job and expect the practicing staff to do what the school should have done...train and prepare them to do the real work.

    I think its sad that new grads would be used as secretaries because that is all the practical use they are. Something is wrong with an educational system that graduates nurses like this, IMO. Personally I don't have time to teach and supervise new grads who have such extreme deficits. Do you??

    Ahhh....Diploma programs, how could I forget. Now that's the way to go. Add an extra year on with nothing but clinicals. I was thinking more of today's programs of ADN and BSN. I think it's unrealistic to think they should come out of nursing school ready to hit the ground running, the way the current schools are set up. Perhaps making Diploma RN the requirement of all future nurses would be an excellent answer. Never heard of a Diploma RN who wasn't ready for the real world, have you?

    Most of the new grads I see though, fortunately don't have extreme deficits, they just aren't proficient. I think expecting someone to be proficient at tasks is not fair. That takes time and practice. We need more time, more instructors, smaller clinical groups, etc. etc. etc. etc. sigh.... Our group was so large I was lucky to have started one IV and one catheter, did a few sterile dressings and trach care, but never started an NGT until I was out. Sorry, it was my preceptors job to be there and help me through it, did she have time? Probably not. But no, teaching new grads monkey tasks is not the job of the preceptor. We should be there to reinforce what should have already in learned, in the best of possible worlds.

    I stated how I felt about new grads working as secretaries and I was in the minority, but I object to that.
  7. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    Ahhh....Diploma programs, how could I forget. Now that's the way to go. Add an extra year on with nothing but clinicals. I was thinking more of today's programs of ADN and BSN. I think it's unrealistic to think they should come out of nursing school ready to hit the ground running, the way the current schools are set up. Perhaps making Diploma RN the requirement of all future nurses would be an excellent answer. Never heard of a Diploma RN who wasn't ready for the real world, have you?

    ....
    It was my understanding over 20 years ago that the university educated nurses would be the professionals. The hospital educated nurses would be the real nurses. Any hope of a balance between the two came to a complete halt when college bacame available to so many. The problem has mushroomed from there.
    Most of the new grads, (even though too many universities allow their students to "learn" they will be the boss, they will know all there is needed to know, etc) come out and quickly realize they really don't know diddly squat about the real world. They also learn what real nursing is. Real nursing is not what they wanted, they wanted a nice clean 9 - 5, after all, they are the professionals, isn't that why they went to college?
    I am not saying this applies to ALL college educated nurses, but it is the case with way too many of them, I've worked with them, ever so short a time that they survived! It's sad. Nursing education is holding us in a nursing shortage because these poor kids leave, nursing is not what they expected.

    I still believe all nurses should climb the ladder. CNA - LPN - diploma RN then if you want to get into management or more, ADN - BSN - MSN - PhD.
  8. by   Kingbandit
    I will be graduating in June from a good school. It is not the schools fault it is the students. They do not for the most part want anything to do with tough assignments. I know one girl who is turning down an incredible opportunity because it requires TWO weeks of training on the floor before going to the ICU. She does not have her priorities in line. I am of the old mind set that your unit is your's you make it the place it is not management.
  9. by   Scuppernong
    AMEN! I couldn't say it any better.....Been in nursing since the mid 60"s.
  10. by   fredpetty1
    Quote from stevielynn
    I have a question. My husband's aunt, age 79, became a nurse at 54. She said in the 60's you could not go to nursing school if you were over 35. Now that sounds strange to me.

    Anyone have any perspective on becoming a nurse over 35 in the 60's?

    steph
    I am 61, a retired school teacher, and I have 12 months left to become a nurse. Some old people just don't want to sit at home.
    fred
    Last edit by fredpetty1 on May 19, '04
  11. by   fredpetty1
    I am 61, a retired school teacher, and I have 12 months left to become a nurse. Some old people just don't want to sit at home.
    fred
  12. by   Dixiedi
    Over 35...

    Can't speak for the 60s but I went in the mid 70s and know there were a lot of what now would be odd rules.
    • Couldn't be over weight.
    • Had to pass collegiate exams before entry (I don't mean SATS or anything like that, I mean actual final exams as if you had taken the course.) Today it is equivelant to testing out.
    • You had to be of exceptional moral character...and they checked references!
    I'm sure there were other things to but the years have faded my memory. I did go to school with a woman in her early 50s and another in her mid 40s, so that rule must have been dropped when they quite making you live at the hospital.
  13. by   mattsmom81
    Quote from fredpetty1
    I am 61, a retired school teacher, and I have 12 months left to become a nurse. Some old people just don't want to sit at home.
    fred

    My aunt went to RN school in her late 50's and now, in her 70's, still does home visits. Good luck to you and hope you find it a rewarding field.

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