Nurse posts brain surgery pics on Facebook - page 4
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Aug 20, '08Quote from MursingMaleHow is taking a non identifying picture of a person’s brain relevant to this? Why would this be an issue? Whose trust is being violated?We don't turn around and tell the parents because we do not want the people who are under our care to stop trusting us. As nurses we are dependent on all of our patient's implicit and explicit trust so that we are able to complete our jobs.
Quote from MursingMale(I think), you are alluding to the implied standard that we, as nurses, are supposed to act as patient advocates, especially when the patient is not in the optimal position of speaking fully for themselves. On that issue my friend, I view it as my prime directive. But that also begs the question of the double standard. Why is it that we, as nurses demand such close scrutiny to towards the behavior of one of our own, (such as taking and posting a picture of a non identifying person’s brain for example), yet we stand aside and do nothing while that same nurse might have had 8 post-op patients as her assignment the night before? If you are going to evoke the “patient advocacy” argument, where are your letters to your representatives demanding reasonable staffing levels? (Obviously a rhetorical question better left to our society as a whole.)The patient needs to be able to trust that we won't give them the wrong medication, that we will not abuse them financially or physically when they are most vulnerable... and that we will not share their secrets (within reason of course... threats of self-harm, abuse, and violence notwithstanding). Once this trust is lost we will be rendered impotent as caregivers.
Quote from MursingMaleActually, we are not covered by those laws.It may seem like the right thing to do at the time, to tell a parent that their child has been using drugs, or has been sexually active; but look at it from the child's point of view. Why would you continue to give information to someone who you believe could not be trusted? As health care providers we have been charged with maintaining the same confidentiality that is expected from a priest or lawyer.
Quote from MursingMaleAgain, why is that? Why the double standard? Why is the bar for video privacy so much higher walking into an ER than walking into a mall. Do you see my point????By violating this trust you are leaving yourself, and the facility you work for, open to being fined by the government and sued by the patient.
Quote from MursingMaleNot only this, but your fellow colleagues who rely on open and honest communication in order to diagnose, treat, and care for these patients are suddenly going to find their job MUCH more difficult if the adolescent / young adult population no longer divulges information that they don't want their parents knowing.
What does this have to do with taking a picture of a person’s brain and posing it on their website?
Quote from MursingMaleIf a person has utterly no idea that a picture of their brain was recorded and subsequently posted on the internet, how is that undermining their trust?We need to remember the adage that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". The nurse may be very well meaning when she tells Sally's parents that she is pregnant, but what are the potential consequences if our patients no longer trust us?
Quote from MursingMaleMany of you know that I have two children, and in spite of this I still believe that this trust between us as nurses and our patients should not be broken. I hope that my children will never face the situations that were discussed in class today, and if they do, that they will be able to come and talk to me about it. If that is not the case though, I want to know that they will feel comfortable enough with the nurse who first encounters and triages them to tell him or her the truth about their condition so that they can receive the treatment they need. I feel that strongly about this issue.
Perhaps you are the exception, but for most people, if their child shared something with a health care provider that would be at all relevant to a long term, adverse outcome, most of those parents would be waiting at the door of their lawyer’s office the next morning to file a law suit.
And again, what does this have to do with taking a non identifying picture of another person’s brain?
Aug 20, '08Seriously folks, I have seen a lot of responses to this issue, from the asinine to the sublime. But I have yet to see one response that directly answers my question, what direct harm was done in what that nurse did?
Aug 20, '08Quote from workingforskiesThe direct harm that the nurse did by posting these pictures to Facebook is that she violated that patients trust in health care workers. That patient came to the hospital and expected that while they were being treated all hospital workers would respect the patient's privacy, which would include not taking pictures of the patient and posting them on Facebook. It doesn't matter that the pictures were non-identifying it still means that the nurse personally violated that patient's right to privacy. In my opinion, had the nurse simply just asked the patient to be able to use pictures from the surgery to share with colleagues or educational purposes then this wouldn't be an issue (even if posting them to Facebook is in bad taste.)Seriously folks, I have seen a lot of responses to this issue, from the asinine to the sublime. But I have yet to see one response that directly answers my question, what direct harm was done in what that nurse did?
Aug 20, '08Wow, four pages. Look, she did something stupid, was caught, and punished. End of story.
Aug 20, '08Oh dear- that is appalling!!! How unprofessional. Unfortunately, we actually had a similar situation here in Phoenix, AZ. A doctor took a picture of a patients genitals during gallbladder surgery. See the story posted below:
Mayo Clinic Hospital CEO Denis Cortese posted a statement on the hospital's official web site according to which dr. Adam Hansen, the resident surgeon, was "no longer practicing medicine at Mayo Clinic." Lynn Closway, spokesman for the hospital, would not disclose whether the surgeon resigned or had been fired.
Dr. Adam Hansen had previously admitted that on Dec.11, 2007, he took a photo with his cell phone of one of his patient's tattooed penis, which could read: "Hot Rod", while he was undergoing a gallbladder intervention and showed the photo to several of his colleagues.
The Arizona Republic related the episode on Monday, after an anonymous source leaked information on the incident, together with the name of the patient: Sean Dubowik, a strip club owner, who later found out he was the center of a scandal upon receiving a phone call on behalf of clinic representatives.
Dubownik told reporters that he "got a strange call after [my] surgery from a doctor who said there was a problem. He said Hansen was on the phone and would explain." After that, Hansen reportedly confessed his deed, admitting he took the picture while inserting a catheter into the patient's penis.
"Now I feel violated, betrayed and disgusted [...] The longer I sit here the angrier I get," Dubownik added.
Referring to both Dr. Hansen and the employee who reported the incident, Lynn Closway, clinic spokesman, said they committed "serious violations, not only of our policies, but the sacred trust Mayo Clinic holds with its patients to respect their privacy and their dignity."
Mayo Clinic representatives have previously announced they were trying to find out who was responsible for the press release of the story, but that puts them in a questionable light, as many concern they committed ethical violations upon starting the investigation.
Aug 20, '08Quote from workingforskiesThese rules exist so that our patients will continue to trust us. I'm sorry that you cannot see that.Seriously folks, I have seen a lot of responses to this issue, from the asinine to the sublime. But I have yet to see one response that directly answers my question, what direct harm was done in what that nurse did?
Aug 20, '08While I agree that HIPPA is a little ridiculous (or a lot) - without even bothering to think about rationalizations my gut tells me this was inappropriate.
Aug 20, '08I think the most important issue is ...If this nurse was clowning around taking cell phone pictures... who was doing her job? When a person is unconsious with their brain exposed, I'm sure they would like to think that the OR staff are being professional, doing their jobs, as opposed to taking photos to post on Facebook.
Also, as someone else stated, why did everyone else let this happen? I find it hard to believe that she was the ONLY person in the room, so why didn't anyone report it or tell her it was wrong? Why didn't the Dr. kick her out of the OR for acting so immaturely?
Aug 20, '08don't know what the laws are like in sweden but they are apparently similar to hippa or there wouldn't be a big stink about it
i have never worked in or but i have heard of surgeons requiring a tape [audio or video?] to protect themselves against trivial lawsuits..they do require a signed consent i am sure but if you are faced with a necessary surgery and the md says they will not do the surgery w/o the signed consent you will grab the pen and sign
i agree that hippa has been stretched out shape. we had a tech here who wanted to get a nurse in trouble because in a conversation she had heard something that she felt was inappropriate
Aug 20, '08Quote from PoeticDymeGreat Point here!! Which makes me think.... Is anybody sure that these are authentic pictures?? And if they are......(theoretically)...if she was that close..then she was scrubbed in..so wouldn't whipping out the phone & leaning over open brain matter with it have totally *broken* sterile field and jeopardized pt health in a much more tangible way than privacy hooplah...hmm..
Quote from workingforskiesSeriously....there was, utterly, no harm done to anyone.
Aug 20, '08Quote from Lu13For me, it's not about HIPAA, it's about having respect for your patients.
Thank you - exactly.
A person is in that most vulnerable of situations.........
Aug 20, '08Quote from cjcsoon2brnthen perhaps a confession should be made to the pt by this nurse...The direct harm that the nurse did by posting these pictures to Facebook is that she violated that patients trust in health care workers. That patient came to the hospital and expected that while they were being treated all hospital workers would respect the patient's privacy, which would include not taking pictures of the patient and posting them on Facebook. It doesn't matter that the pictures were non-identifying it still means that the nurse personally violated that patient's right to privacy. In my opinion, had the nurse simply just asked the patient to be able to use pictures from the surgery to share with colleagues or educational purposes then this wouldn't be an issue (even if posting them to Facebook is in bad taste.)
and let the pt decide this nurse's fate.
if the pt decides, "no biggie", then let the nurse get off with a serious warning.
btw, workingforskies makes some great points.