Nurse Fights for License After Sex With Dying Patient - Page 21Register Today!
- Jan 31, '11 by Psychtrish39Nursel56,
I am from Oklahoma and the prior posters I believe were trying to say she is being treated like that because it is a conservative state. It is in the bible belt . I was born in Missouri and lived in Oklahoma and never had an issue with the BON. They keep good tabs on their nurses. I think myself they revoked her for 20 years because of the nature of the charges and how she has this sense she did nothing wrong. That to me is a scary healthcare provider. I dont think it has anything to do with it being Oklahoma here in Washington where I live they would drum her out of town. I think she is somewhat of a predator as she has no remorse about it or she would take her punishment and move on with her life and have a job where she cant abuse the trust of patients or the public.
- Jan 31, '11 by Conqueror+Quote from HorseshoeSorry if it came across that way but I was NOT suggesting that by any stretch. I was simply stating that I don't feel safe leaving my loved one in the care of a sexual predator OR a drug addict but the latter is treated like a victim even though they often victimize patients. I think Van Brunt should have gotten a permanent revocation.I think a lot of people might agree with you, but that is a completely different issue. Giving sex predators additional leniency simply because drug addicts are given an extra chance to redeem themselves would only be a case of two wrongs don't make a right. BTW, sexual predators have a terrible recidivism rate, probably worse than drug addicts (though I haven't looked it up). Perhaps a second thread could be posted debating whether drug addicts deserve the right to enter TPAPN or have their licenses permanently revoked. I'm sure it would be an interesting debate.
- Apr 9, '11 by dadda11o"She was wrong, no doubt about it. but to end her career? I have spent time at the BON site looking at charges and punishments against nurses for various offenses and find the punishment they administered to this nurses totaly out of line compared to many crimes/punishments you will see levied by the state against nurses for patient abuse, drug theft/use, DUI and the list goes on. Including offenses that actually put people's lives in danger. I believe the punishment was a result of the culture in that state based on having lived there for a number of years. Totaly out of line."
I have been in the midst of a nightmarish experience for nearly a year. My husband has diabetes and developed an ulcer on his heel last year. Then, osteomyelitis necessitating IV therapy. Because it was ordered every 12 hours and he'd need other treatments in between, I called his insurance (private and Medicare), hoping to get it set up to do at home (I'm an LPN, not practicing currently). Medicare required "physician supervision" for payment to be made, so he had to have it done at the hospital. During the course of his treatment, a married nurse took a fancy to him and decided to seduce him (she knew he was married and that we have teenage daughters). So she did. I was reporting his mood swings and temper outbursts (uncharacteristic) to his physicians and even called the nursing unit where this was occuring. I couldn't make any sense of his behavior last year-picking fights, blowing up. He'd had a serious heart attack the year before, so our entire family had already been through the emotional wringer. Well, he filed for divorce October 5 of last year with the promise "we'd pick up where we left off" when both their divorces are done. Our's has been dragging on, $1000s of dollars strong, her's has never begun. I know for a fact others (at the facility) knew she was behaving inappropriately and have an obligation to report, but, as the treating podiatrist told me, "I don't want to get involved." Well, I don't either and our children don't. I reported her, no action. She accused me of "stalking" her and got a protective order based on the fact that I called the facility to report her behavior. Found a 14 page love letter in which she talks about how she "envies" me and "wished with all her heart" to be my husband's wife. Sort of spooky, actually.
I'll tell you this much-I can't find ANY help or support for family going through this type of incident. Even when I reported her, I made it VERY clear that she must have some psychological problems for her to behave in such a manner. Except that I'm going through it, I can't even picture any nurse behaving like this. I think it's bad enough she DECIDED she wanted a relationship, so she instigated and manipulated it, making the patient "feel" it's a "consensual" thing. But to think that a nurse would choose to do that with someone with a family, and one that's been through a great deal of stress (not to mention the medical bills!). I've read cases on our state (IN) site that detail proceedings against health care professionals, in one case of "consensual" relationship, the patient turned lover ended up dead after the relationship deteriorated (the provider was also prescribing medication for "weight loss"). Fortunately, she had initiated a complaint before she ended up dead.
There is some good information at the National Council of State Boards of Nursing (www.ncsbn.org/ ) on boundaries and nurses responsibilities. Info is available for consumers as well as professionals. An especially helpful pamphlet is the one that details the effects of sexual boundary violations on patients (https://www.ncsbn.org/Sexual_Miscond...web%281%29.pdf); it provides illustrative cases as well as some information on treatment.
So yes, to "end her (or his) career" AT LEAST until they get their heads and priorities straight. I know there are probably very few nurses who go to work in order to satisfy themselves at the expense of the patients, but that is the reason why the boundaries are there and why they are important. Nurses have information-marital and familial status, career, some financial, previous medical history, etc. that two people spending an equivalent amount of time would not have access to, normally-especially from the standpoint of the nurse having a treasure trove as opposed to the patient, who mostly has fantasies and impressions gleaned from a workplace setting, where people are going to smile, be attentive and attractive. People always want exceptions because they're a "special case". I say that you (both) should just have to REGISTER your relationship with the BON (or appropriate agency). If harm comes to the patient turned date, you get to be responsible. Would that be fair? It's not fair to me or my children to have entrusted my husband, their father, to a facility, only to have him turn into a stranger destroying our family and finances due to the instigation of an unprofessional, disturbed nurse. I'll get through it, but I am tired of people (including health care "professionals") who tell me, "They're adults. Get over it and get on with your life." I am, but the point is, I shouldn't have to. That's the point of professional boundaries-protective gear as important as the gloves we don (what seems like) 1000 times a shift.Last edit by dadda11o on Apr 9, '11 : Reason: spelling
- Apr 21, '12 by SaiderapQuote from bonnett9This stuff should not be public knowledge. Can anybody keep thier sex life private anymore?
I see what you're saying as far as that not every patient who is having sex with their nurse is a confused or helpless patient who is suffering.
Some caregivers are bullied and pressured into doing sexual favors for their abusive patients and they have no way of defending themselves.
They need psychiatric treatment not public exposure.
- Apr 22, '12 by GitanoRNit's sad , anyway you look at it, news of this magnitude leaves one with unanswered questions and totally cold.
- Apr 22, '12 by nursemarionI agree. Just a terrible sad situation. Still, as long as the relationship is consensual I think 20 years is unfair and too long. She may have given him the only thing that kept him feeling like a human being while facing this devastating illness. We just don't know what was in both their heads.
And dadda11o I know the rage that you feel when something like this happens, but how many people do we know who have developed a relationship with others through work or any other circumstance? It happens. I believe that if people are happy and fulfilled in their current relationships the urge to stray will not be acted upon. I am very sorry for you but I think all of us are human beings and we make connections with others in different circumstances and ways. A sexual predator is one who manipulates others and does it over and over again. Falling in love is a different ball game.
- Apr 22, '12 by rn/writerA fragile, depressed, vulnerable and dependent patient cannot truly give consent. This wasn't a tragic affair between two star-crossed peers. This was someone in a position of trust who got her own "needs" met at great cost to the patient and his family. And then she told him she was pregnant by another man.
It doesn't matter what was in her head. She violated the trust that was placed in her, disregarded the principles in the Nurse Practice Act in her state and made a shambles of the end of this patient's life.
I believe that if people are happy and fulfilled in their current relationships the urge to stray will not be acted upon.
People in positions of trust cannot blame the ones they are supposed to be taking care of. They have to be prepared to draw lines and stick to boundaries even when (especially when!) their patients (or students or athletes) invite or even entice them to ignore the separation that helps to define a therapeutic relationship. They have to be the stronger ones and extricate themselves from that kind of connection, even if it means severing the connection.
Practitioners who do not understand this concept are ripe for dangerous situations and can end up, like this woman, doing far more harm than good.
If this guy had cheated with a neighbor or an old high school flame, that would have been sad and kind of sordid. But, as far as I know, there is no Neighbor Practice Act or Board of Old High School Flames whose rules would have been broken. It's the fact that the woman in question agreed to uphold certain standards and then dashed them (along with her patient) to smithereens that made her an unsavory character and trashed her nursing license. When you promise to behave a certain way and then you make a mockery of the promises, you deserve heavy consequences.
Maybe twenty years will be enough time for her to figure this out.Last edit by rn/writer on Apr 22, '12
- Apr 22, '12 by nursemarionI agree and would NEVER have a relationship with a patient. But I also understand that things happen for different reasons and since I do not know the details I withhold judgment.
There was a nurse that I worked with who fell for a patient. It was not as bad as this, no terminal illness just a nasty injury. I remember how weird and obvious it was in the hospital. But I always figured they are adults and what she does on her own time is her business, not mine. How many old movies were made around this subject? Romance blossoms with Nurse Nancy caring for a wounded soldier, a patient falling in love and marrying her doctor, etc. People are flawed by their nature. Extreme circumstances can bring people together in strange ways. She was creepy to have done this, creepy beyond belief to me, but again I was not there.
I still think 20 years is extreme. I for one would say that the board should have demanded she have psychological counseling and a suspension of not more than 5 years depending on how she behaves otherwise and complies with counseling.
- Apr 22, '12 by dadda11oWell, it's a year later for me. I am still embroiled in a divorce with a husband that wants to throw me out with nothing. In the discovery during our divorce, I learned that his gambling was a lot more of a problem than I was previously aware of. Not to mention that a BDI - II that I completed with him shortly before the affair came to light indicated severe depression. I understand what you are saying about developing friendships and relationships through work, nursemarion. In fact, there are times, and this is noted in professional literature, that boundary "crossings" may be appropriate. But in those cases, they need not be kept secret or out of the patient's nursing documentation.
Anyway, my husband has continued to engage in this affair. Although the nurse in question stated in a letter to him well over a year ago that her husband was determined to divorce her, there has been NO divorce action taken in their marriage. My husband had (we don't talk much at all anymore) told me they were trying to get her husband arrested for domestic violence. He is apparently "helping" her through ... when I asked why she wasn't contacting a DV agency, the police or an attorney, he didn't have much to say other than a lot of derogatory stuff about her husband, She has her career, husband and home intact. I have mounting legal bills, lost one of my jobs part time due to all the stress (anxiety, depression, sleep problems) this is causing me ... especially the fact that despite accepting "what is" and trying to get the divorce finished, he refuses to put forth anything resembling an equitable settlement. I am trapped, unless I just leave with what I can carry out in my car ... which broke down again last week.
I'm not going to claim that I am the perfect wife, but our daughters are suffering through this too. The nurse wrote a letter to our younger (17yo) daughter asking that she be understanding of his harshness and "be patient with him". Since that is role reversal, I can only think it is also indicative of whatever this nurse's psychological problems are ... She has tried to befriend my daughters, buying them gifts and such. One daughter screamed at her father, "Can't you see she's playing you?!" and finally just broke down crying. The younger confronted her father when he complained about finances and told him that it is his behavior causing money problems, after which he told me that I need to throw her out at the end of the school year. (He has not lived here since filing for divorce in October 2010, except for very short periods, and not at all since April 2011, at which time part of his foot was amputated because nobody noticed the small spot I found on one of his visits and pointed out to him.)
Doesn't matter, though. The state isn't interested in the secondary victimization that is going on due to the nurse's unprofessional behavior. She apparently took him to an attorney's office and they signed off on some letter stating that the relationship is "consensual". If I sound like someone who deserves this treatment because I somehow was a failure in my marriage, so be it. Not that I have any say in the matter. I can't even imagine what I would be thinking if I hadn't been in nursing ... and how our daughters figure in to deserving their pain and loss while this "noble Nightingale" is viewed as someone "just making my husband happy" ... that part I don't get. But I don't think the families behind the scenes often get to have much of anything put forth for people to think about. I trusted the nurses and the facility ... as I absolutely should have been able to. At least someday, this will only be a bad memory.
- Apr 22, '12 by dadda11oAnd just a little BTW, there is not as much literature out there about female "sexual predators" as there is males. BUT, if a nurse wanted to find likely victims, checking the patients out in terms of age, religious affiliations, family and strength of relationships, diagnosis and prognosis ... it's all there. Plus whatever records are placed by other departments. THAT IS part of the reason for the boundary and why it should be strictly communicated to health care professionals as well as strictly enforced. Think about it ... did the Oklahoma nurse choose the patient because of his demographics/diagnosis or for "pure" reasons of the heart?