Number of Philippine Nurses Emigrating Skyrockets - page 3

The Philippines exports 15,000 nurses a year, and it's estimated that 1 in 10 Filipinos now works abroad. The nursing drain could have a crippling effect on the Philippines healthcare system. ... Read More

  1. by   kbuds
    Quote from jayrelic
    My take on things -

    More foreign nurses will lead us down a very dangerous path. You need look no further than technology.

    Technology jobs were outsourced overseas to places where folks earn pennies on the dollar vs. American salaries. What did that do to those who worked in technology in the US - I think we're all in tune enough to know that tens (dare I say 100's) of thousands of Americans found themself out of a job as a result of the willingness of CEO's to outsource those jobs to foreign countries.

    Now we all realize that you can't send sick patients overseas to be treated. So what do you do? Well, you start hiring foreign nurses for quarters on the dollar (it's healthcare, so they are willing to pay .25c vs .01c for the help).

    Let's face it - most (notice I did not say all as there are countries of exception) foreign nurses can be 'bought' for lower wages. They will work for lower wages as the money they are able to send home is astronimcal compared to a day's, heck, a month's paycheck in their home country. So they gladly accept lower wages, live frugally or come over together and live together to help defray costs. What does this do to American nursing jobs? Well, the math is easy - there are less jobs available to American nurses, and the nursing salary is depressed as a result of the willingness of foreign nurses to work for less.

    There, I've said my piece.
    Well, that is definitely something to keep in mind by any foreign nurse coming to the U.S. to work...me included because I signed up for a 2-year contract last year...for a job possibly to start in 2006 (?)

    But anyway for me it all started early in 2002 when we had a lot of U.S. nurse recruiters holding seminars in Manila for nurses interested to work in the U.S. It was explained to us that U.S. immigration laws dictate that employers have to pay foreign nurses the same salaries as their American counterparts. In fact I was offered $19.50 an hour plus $800 a month for housing, which I thought was really OK but which my sister, also a nurse in California, said was on the low side. Anyway, I think that even if some
    foreign nurses would in fact accept lower salaries, those who come in thru the proper immigration procedures should earn as much as their American
    nurse counterparts.

    The immigration doors were suddenly flung open for nurses and so many Filipino nurses tried their luck at the CGFNS, TOEFL, TSE, and the NCLEX. Those exams are really tough and of those who tried or are currently trying, only 5% or so eventually get qualified for U.S. employment based immigrant visas (they call it EB-3). Actually getting there is another hurdle, Between
    2001 and 2004 less that about 2000 nurses were actually able to leave for the States (about 500 a year). As this was happening, the Philippine Congress took legal steps to stop the exodus of trained nurses, but as they did that, there was a surge of so many people enrolling in nursing
    schools! Now everybody is into nursing! Curiously, most people here really believe the story that there will be a shortage of nurses worldwide up until 2020. But anyway I have a hunch that as the present crop of nursing
    students (both U.S. and non-U.S.) finish school starting in 2006, the shortage would begin to ease. Just an opinion though.

    Finally last month the BCIS announced a retrogression for EB-3 visas affecting 3 countries: China, India, and the Philippines, which includes nurses petitioned by U.S. employers. Right now, U.S. consulates are processing the
    I-140s of nurses petitioned back in January 2002. That means a nurse petitioned today will have to wait 3 years! By that time her job will no longer be there!

    So, if this policy continues, I wonder what American employer would be willing to hire a foreign nurse from those 3 countries, no matter how smart or skillful, who would arrive after 3 years?

    So there you go. :icon_roll
    Last edit by kbuds on Feb 9, '05 : Reason: typos
  2. by   annasol06
    Well,....[img]images/smilies/crying2.gif[/img] the US has completely blocked the entry of nurses coming from the Phil, China and India. I just can't get it! At a time the US has this nursing shortage they do this! [img]images/smilies/angryfire.gif[/img] If they think that are working for the interest of their citizens by weeding out supposedly terrorists and placating american nurses who are complaining about the entry of these foreign nurses whom they think are getting jobs away from them. Then they are absolutely mistaken! The US citizens themselves are in the losing end because nursing care are compromised by these shortage and both local and foreign nurses are open to suits resulting from burnout due to the heavy workload given. I certainly welcome the entry of these nurses whom i found easy to get along with and more than capable. By the way, they are given the same rates and benefits as their US counterpart and another more they pay the SAME taxes!!! I should know. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
  3. by   marymary
    Quote from kbuds
    ******************

    Hello, I'm a nurse but I'm also a Filipino citizen. It feels like I'm entering a lion's den with <Rep> and <Rkm> right now but I'd like to speak out.

    The U.S. government does'nt give us THAT much money, to deserve your
    unkind comments. As simply as I can put it, so much money came in as investments from the U.S. and the industrialized nations through the years so we could develop our industries for foreign markets, but these loans accumulated a huge amount of interest. Production somehow didn't take off, because the very high tariffs imposed on our goods by these same western countries made us uncompetetive. A substantial portion of our GNP goes to the payment of these loans, and as of this point we could hardly cope with the interest payments. Our foreign debt keeps rising every year!

    So here's our situation right as I see it, in sequence:

    1>Economic instability....
    2>So little jobs available...
    3>So many unemployed people..., depressed wages
    (Nurses here make the equivalent of about US$6.50 a day. So most of our
    nursing students dream not of staying, but of working abroad...)
    4>Rebellion by muslim or communist factions who think they would do better
    on their own...
    5>Only about 15 % or so pay taxes because people in general think the
    money would be stolen by corrupt government officials...or worst there
    is'nt any money left to pay the taxes because of #2 and #3.

    6>Because of insufficient funds the government is increasingly unable
    to repair the whole situation.

    7>Dead end.

    But we still nurture hope...and so, because it turned out that there is a continuing demand for our local skills overseas, people made individual decisions to leave their families to find work abroad. Or maybe it's our peculiar mindset. So what's wrong about fighting for our families' survival? By working abroad we solve numbers #(2) and #(3) of the above. And perhaps we could offer a better alternative to those leaning in favor of option # (4), and the money we send home also will include taxes to help support our government #(5), so it could deal with #(6) and undo #(7).

    As professional nurses in our host countries we try to provide the best nursing care to our patients, as the poet Robert Frost might put it, "whatever good I may do, let me do it now, because I will not pass this way again". Because I was invited by a kind American employer, I look forward to working in the U.S. too and will do just that, my colleague. But I will always look back to the Philippines as my dear homeland and pray that someday our future generations would be better off because of the sacrifices we make right now. And, in that distant future, if we do need foreign workers, we will welcome them as guests, as part of our tradition.

    Enough said.
    I am not going to take my violin out right now, I will leave it in the closet. The problem that I have with Filipine nurses is not that they are working in the U.S., we have plenty of jobs to go around. It is the way that they intensify "nurses eating their young". I have met some very evil filipine nurses in my past eleven years of nursing. Some have blacklisted nurses, while others have tried to take away others nursing licenses. What I say to you, and your coutrymen/women, "be more empathetic to your fellow worker". There are many different cultures and manners of behavior in the United States. While in health care settings;Speaking another language around other nurses and patients is impolite and uprofessional. Kinda of like whispering. . Your countrymen just do not seem to get it or they do not care.
    That's all.:hatparty:
    Last edit by marymary on Feb 11, '05
  4. by   marymary
    Quote from Rep
    Developed countries do not need money from other countries. They can imposed anything to served their interest.

    Let me tell you one thing. Before the US gave the Philippines independence, they told the Philippine government to sign a trade treaty called the "Parity Act" as a condition. This treaty gave any American equal rights as that of Filipinos to use our natutral resources and not to pay tarriffs or import duties. Yes, our mountains were stripped bared. Our gold mines were empty because of this treaty. What do we get from it? Financial donations?

    We are in this mess not only because of our inept government but also of powerful nations like the US.
    Well you can take comfort in knowing that this is common practice for the United States. I guess it is one of the reasons for the bad rep we have inherited from our forefathers. This is something that has happened all across the globe, who knows Iraq may be next.:Melody:
  5. by   kbuds
    Hi everyone!

    Here’s a link I found about understanding persons of Philippine Origin….as patients or co-workers. An eye opener for me too.

    http://cirrie.buffalo.edu/philippine...#understanding
    Last edit by kbuds on Feb 13, '05 : Reason: typos
  6. by   marymary
    Quote from kbuds
    Hi everyone!

    Here's a link I found about understanding persons of Philippine Origin....as patients or co-workers. An eye opener for me too.

    http://cirrie.buffalo.edu/philippine...#understanding
    Hi
    I have researched the Filipines as a group of people long ago, and so I am well aware of their strong cultural history. They are to be commended, as are other peoples that immigrate to the United States. But they are the only group that I know that treat their co-workers with such wickness in the workforce. It is not all but a handful, but the handful seems to control the whole especially when there is a large number on an entire wing working. I hope that my comments will spark some thought in those that do come here to live or make this country their permanent home. It is very important that we all treat each other with respect and as part of a working healthcare team. We all strive for the same goal: welfare and good health of the patient.
    :hatparty:
    Last edit by marymary on Feb 13, '05
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from jayrelic
    My take on things -

    More foreign nurses will lead us down a very dangerous path. You need look no further than technology.

    Technology jobs were outsourced overseas to places where folks earn pennies on the dollar vs. American salaries. What did that do to those who worked in technology in the US - I think we're all in tune enough to know that tens (dare I say 100's) of thousands of Americans found themself out of a job as a result of the willingness of CEO's to outsource those jobs to foreign countries.

    Now we all realize that you can't send sick patients overseas to be treated. So what do you do? Well, you start hiring foreign nurses for quarters on the dollar (it's healthcare, so they are willing to pay .25c vs .01c for the help).

    Let's face it - most (notice I did not say all as there are countries of exception) foreign nurses can be 'bought' for lower wages. They will work for lower wages as the money they are able to send home is astronimcal compared to a day's, heck, a month's paycheck in their home country. So they gladly accept lower wages, live frugally or come over together and live together to help defray costs. What does this do to American nursing jobs? Well, the math is easy - there are less jobs available to American nurses, and the nursing salary is depressed as a result of the willingness of foreign nurses to work for less.

    There, I've said my piece.
    You're missing a big part of the picture. This is not the same as what happened to the tech industry. Here, foreign nurses have the same cost of living that we do. Overseas tech workers don't. It's the cost of living that matters.

    A hospital may initially hire a foreign nurse for cheap, but they won't take it for long, mostly because they can't afford to live on those wages in the U.S. If a foreign nurse tries to work in California for peanuts, they won't be able to survive. The housing costs alone force foreign nurses to demand better wages. That's why so many quit their jobs after initial training and find better paying jobs elsewhere.

    Besides, all of this is a moot point. With the new government restrictions on visas and the like taking effect this year, foreign nurses won't be flooding the market anytime soon. There's really nothing to worry about.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 13, '05
  8. by   annasol06
    Well sad to say of your bad experience with the Philippine nurses. Although i agree with you that there might be some as what you say... and i do hope that they are a few lot. However, there are also other nurses of other nationalities that can do as much damage in terms of having other nurses licenses removed or ratting on their co workers especially if there is a good and valid reason to do that. ...My comment on that is...to make sure that there would be no reason for any nurse of any nationality for that matter to rat on anyone. Just make sure you do your job right and be nice to everyone [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
  9. by   hunny_pye
    Alot of foreign nurses work in the United States because there's a BIG demand for them!!! Other countries especially the philippines supply that NEED!!! It goes hand in hand...Everybody benefits!!!
  10. by   marymary
    Quote from annasol
    Well sad to say of your bad experience with the Philippine nurses. Although i agree with you that there might be some as what you say... and i do hope that they are a few lot. However, there are also other nurses of other nationalities that can do as much damage in terms of having other nurses licenses removed or ratting on their co workers especially if there is a good and valid reason to do that. ...My comment on that is...to make sure that there would be no reason for any nurse of any nationality for that matter to rat on anyone. Just make sure you do your job right and be nice to everyone [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
    These situations are personality conflicts it has nothing to do with clinical skills. Like you say there is good and bad in all, unfortunately this is more prominent in the older generation that is here today. I am one of several people that have had bad experiences. In fact I am fighting a situation right now that is based on personality conflict. Sometimes the wrong people are given positions in authority that should not have them. And when they are in the presence of their own managers, they give a false impression. Thank God that everyone has a boss. I will settle this by seeing the Director of Nursing and resolve the issue soon. I plan to leave the position after my year in Medical Surgical Nursing is over. This experience was enough to convince me to move on to a speciality. I can see that you are an exceptional nurse and human being.Thanks for your comments.
    Last edit by marymary on Feb 16, '05
  11. by   maribel
    i can't imagine why does some people, or good nurses from USA cannot render service or the "TLC" of filipino nurse! maybe ur government is not contented on the service that they get from u! cant u be happy why do philippine government is allowing our best nurses to exit here and work for ur people! are u trying to put us down?!! life here is very hard, and if we dont have any dreams of going abroad our love ones will die with an empty stomach!
    just give grace to the lord that you are living in a rich country unlike us here! know what, if i were u, i'll be thankful that there are nurses from philippines who are willing to care for ur people, willing to wash their *** in exchange of their needs! if you will just only ask every single overseas filipino worker in every part of the world, we don't want to leave our country... we love to live and die here... but the sad thing is... we have poor leadership. you're very lucky....don't put us down... i'm a student nurse, dont make me feel that i'm another trash...
  12. by   jayrelic
    Quote from lizz
    You're missing a big part of the picture. This is not the same as what happened to the tech industry. Here, foreign nurses have the same cost of living that we do. Overseas tech workers don't. It's the cost of living that matters.

    A hospital may initially hire a foreign nurse for cheap, but they won't take it for long, mostly because they can't afford to live on those wages in the U.S. If a foreign nurse tries to work in California for peanuts, they won't be able to survive. The housing costs alone force foreign nurses to demand better wages. That's why so many quit their jobs after initial training and find better paying jobs elsewhere.

    Besides, all of this is a moot point. With the new government restrictions on visas and the like taking effect this year, foreign nurses won't be flooding the market anytime soon. There's really nothing to worry about.


    I don't think I'm missing the picture as I said in my original post that many times foreign nurses come together and live together to help defray the costs. I'm willing to bet if we take a poll of just the Filipino nurses reading this post that work in the US, 90% have 'roommates' and they split the bills. I've seen this situation in technology hundreds and hundreds of times. I'm not against the hiring of Filipino nurses, as I know they are some of the most caring, loyal people in the world. I'm against what hiring too many nurses from other countries will do to the US nursing job market. All of us US born nurses have a family to feed, kids to send to college, saving for retirement, dreams.....the list goes on.

    I'm just saying please open up your mind to what hiring too many foreign nurses will do to the job market here in the US. To repeat, lower wages, and less jobs. Supply and demand....again, pretty simple when you do the math.
  13. by   jayrelic
    Quote from hunny_pye
    Alot of foreign nurses work in the United States because there's a BIG demand for them!!! Other countries especially the philippines supply that NEED!!! It goes hand in hand...Everybody benefits!!!
    I'll have to respectfully disagree. Everybody does not benefit. If, and I realize that is an if right now, the US starts fast-tracking more foreign nurses to the US, the supply and demand will *shift* the other way - a surplus of nurses. Then you'll see, as I have said a few times in this thread, lower wages, and less nursing vacancies.

    Supply and demand - wait, yeah, I guess you are right about it being a supply and demand issue. But let's look at the long term effects of supply and demand regarding this topic.

close