Number of Philippine Nurses Emigrating Skyrockets - page 18

The Philippines exports 15,000 nurses a year, and it's estimated that 1 in 10 Filipinos now works abroad. The nursing drain could have a crippling effect on the Philippines healthcare system. ... Read More

  1. by   underwatergirl
    Fergus51,

    I have no problem with working with or having foreign nurses here, my problem exist of what will happen if it is not controlled and the future of my country.

    Yes I am Americans First whether that be good or bad...I would not expect to come to your country and have you put me before your people, regardless of how my work ethics were, and I am absolutely sure that spot wouldn't be open to me either.

    Yes America is a country built from immigration...but heck what country doesn't have his/her country built on immigration...the only difference is our history doesn't go back as far as yours or other countries for that matter. But now we have our people and our children who are born on this soil and must we sacrifce them for others who haven't been born on this soil??? I stand by what I said...take care off our own first!!!

    It is said your country is horrible for this reason or that reason and from years of being stomped on by dictators...well instead of people wanting to run away...why not stand up and fight??? When you come here to make good money fine...don't just send it home for your families to spend and make the lives of the very problems of your countries continue to exist. I do not take for granted from God the life I was born in to...but it is my responisibilty and my obligation to stand for the life that was given to me...I would stand and fight along side any foreigners that made a choice to take a stand. But what happens the majority of the time...countries stand by and watch as American blood is shed to make their lives better...however they refuse to stand up with us. What must America do??? Must we always be matryers???

    America fought for our freedom from England/France, we fought our civil war for freedom of slaves...and countless other wars...we have stood up and took action...we united and stood united. I say you want a better life, don't run and hide in another country, fight for what you want...united...your strength comes in numbers, only then can you be truelly free.

    I am sorry I think it should be damn hard for people to come to this country...I don't like to have my culture my history pushed aside because it is not a minority anymore...however people from other countries are minoity and recieve particular treatment. English has been the choice of language in America since we first begin and recieved our independence...I don't believe in stating well we don't have a langauge..we do..what other tongue was so widely spoken since the beginning and now???

    All I ask is my country take care of it's own first, then lets help as many as we can. No country would put any American before it's own people, why does America have too..

    I still stand by my original statement...I support immigration of foreign nurses as long as it is controlled and adaptation to our culture and expectations of employers take's place. I don't want to see American nurses be turned down for jobs in the furture because of the foreign nurses we accepted and are now a minority...it is was unjustice traded for another.

    I am sorry this may offend people, but my opinion is my own and I have every right to protect my country and it's future...after all I am doing it on my own soil
  2. by   fergus51
    Ummm.... my country is Canada and the US (I'm a dual citizen) No dictators in Canada for years now I know America's history and can't say I agree with all of what you said about us being martyrs for everyone else. And it's pretty easy to tell someone else to stay and fight when you've only lived in a free country.

    I do agree that immigration should be controlled, and it is. It is damned hard for people to come to this country and I don't see why we have to make them feel more unwelcome with all the attitude. I also don't see why many Americans take such pride in things they've never done. We generally take the immigrants that WE need. We aren't taking all those nurses to do them a favor. I could care less if an immigrant wants to keep their religion or their language as long as they adapt in English in the workplace. That's a small price to pay for the rest of us to benefit from their contribution to this country as far as I'm concerned. America first is fine if you're willing to have your loved one on a unit of only new grads rather than accept care from an experienced foreign nurse. I'm not. I care more about competence than nationality.
    Last edit by fergus51 on Jul 3, '05
  3. by   underwatergirl
    Fergus,

    FYI I have taken a stand in actually a deadly situation...out of the 200 approx 65 were killed...so ya it is a bit easier for me to say. I strongly believe you fight for what you believe and you don't back down. You unite with others. Don't run and Don't hide, make a stand.

    Regarding the martyr part, we let American's die for other countries constantly, that is the reference to that....just think of the wars of the last 100 years...and outreach america did.

    As I stated above I have no problem with nurses coming to this country, I only want something to protect the future of American nurses getting jobs, I don't want this to go over board..more nurses than needed. It is a delicate balance between our supply and demand, I worry that if we have too many comming the demand will drop with a high supply, then the immigrants will be classified as a minority and hence have first oppurtunity at jobs...I don't agree with the whole minority thing, I believe the most qualified should have it, but I also don't want to see American nurses go jobless due to foreigners.

    I agree with what you stated regarding culture and languages, perhaps I said it wrong...I think English should be a requirement and no BS about our culture having negative influences on them. I don't want to lose anymore of our culture then what we already have.

    Again no problem with having foreign nurses I just want it controlled so American nurses do not go jobless. But that is Politcs...LOL

    Quote from fergus51
    Ummm.... my country is Canada and the US (I'm a dual citizen) No dictators in Canada for years now I know America's history and can't say I agree with all of what you said about us being martyrs for everyone else. And it's pretty easy to tell someone else to stay and fight when you've only lived in a free country.

    I do agree that immigration should be controlled, and it is. It is damned hard for people to come to this country and I don't see why we have to make them feel more unwelcome with all the attitude. I also don't see why many Americans take such pride in things they've never done. We generally take the immigrants that WE need. We aren't taking all those nurses to do them a favor. I could care less if an immigrant wants to keep their religion or their language as long as they adapt in English in the workplace. That's a small price to pay for the rest of us to benefit from their contribution to this country as far as I'm concerned. America first is fine if you're willing to have your loved one on a unit of only new grads rather than accept care from an experienced foreign nurse. I'm not. I care more about competence than nationality.
  4. by   fergus51
    I just don't share your view of our history. Sure Americans have died in other countries (so have Canadians, Brits, Australians, etc.). I just don't consider it martyrdom when we go to war for our own benefit. The US is no different from any other country in that regard. I'll leave it at that since it's kind of off topic.

    Just so you knwo, you already have most of what you want. The government does control numbers of immigrants based on need. They aren't about to flood the country with millions of foreign nurses so that the rest of us wind up jobless. "Minorities" are not given any special preference for nursing jobs where I work or anywhere that I have worked for that matter. The only preference my employer has listed is regarding skills. Foreign nurses are required to prove their English abilities to get their license (which is a requirement for immigration).

    Again, I don't have the same culture views you do. American culture is just the culture of the people at the time. I don't worry about society that way and I like the mix of cultures and feel no sadness at the idea of losing some traditions and replacing them with new ones. The good values will always endure and there are plenty of negative ones I would happily see die.
  5. by   pickledpepperRN
    The CNA Vice President, Zenei Triunfo-Cortez, RN was educated in the Phillipines. She and fellow officers and board members, all direct care registered nurses, formulated this position statement.

    http://www.calnurse.org/?Action=Content&id=682

    CNA's Code of Practice for the International Recruitment of Nurses
    The California Nurses Association and
    The National Nurses Organizing Committee
  6. by   afhroends
    Quote from Tweety
    I hope you realize that, while some may lash out at you, most of us have no problems with you trying to better your lot in life. It's the foundation of America that people from other lands come here to better their life. It's source of pride for many of us living here.

    The issue is not you personally, although I can see how it would feel that way. I'm sorry for that.

    Thank you very much. This is all i need to hear and read. As i said and will always say to you, my dear colleagues, peace.
  7. by   lee1
    Quote from spacenurse
    The CNA Vice President, Zenei Triunfo-Cortez, RN was educated in the Phillipines. She and fellow officers and board members, all direct care registered nurses, formulated this position statement.

    http://www.calnurse.org/?Action=Content&id=682

    CNA's Code of Practice for the International Recruitment of Nurses
    The California Nurses Association and
    The National Nurses Organizing Committee
    California Nurses Association -- Code of Practice for the International Recruitment of Nurses

    "Employers must either provide free accommodation or charge appropriate and reasonable rents if accommodation is not supplied."

    I like this part from the Code for nursing immigration from the CNA. Now do employers do the same for American nurses trying to get jobs especially those just finishing school or moving to other locations???? I think not.

    "Nurses are recruited from countries which are not experiencing shortages and/or where the effectiveness and quality of health care systems in source countries is not undermined by recruitment."

    I would like to see just how they determine this !!! We all know that Africa, India, even the Phillipines do not have quality health care and depend on money from our own country to support them.
  8. by   Tweety
    Quote from fergus51
    I'm all for it too. My only problem is when these two issues become intermingled. Foreign nurses coming here have nothing to do with nursing schools in America not producing enough nurses. Hospitals are businesses and so it only makes sense for them to hire actual nurses rather than invest in an American who may or may not make it through an expensive nursing program. That's not their responsibility. Insisting that they need to do that or that the government needs to do it smacks of overreaching government to me and that's something most Americans rail against. Planning for the future is great, but it doesn't diminish the need for skilled immigrants NOW.

    And I admit as a pseudo-foreigner myself I do get offended at the "Americans first" attitude at times, especially when the immigrants we are taking in are the cream of the crop. They contribute far more to this country than many native born citizens or we wouldn't accept them in the first place. I take a slightly different view of "Americans who can compete first". If they can't work with me tonight on the unit, I don't care that they were born here. If an American wants the job, I say let them put themselves through nursing school like the rest of us and come on in There are plenty of jobs for all of us!

    Fergus, I see you're point.

    My main beef is that foreign workers are not allowed in the US to take jobs American want. I have a Korean national friend who has to leave the US because of this law, but that's just the way it is. He's degreed in a field where there's no shortage.

    I'm going to have to disagree with your idea that we should have to compete with foreing nurses for jobs. But it's a moot point.

    To say that these foreign workers are taking jobs Americans don't want doesn't quite ring true to me when there are waiting lists of Americans who want to be nurses. But yes, as I've said there is room for us all. Right now it's true, there are not enough Americans in the workforce to fulfill the need and I support bringing in the foreign nurse.

    The connection between the waiting lists and foreign workers to me is that the government fast tracks them to citazenship and working here. I wish more efforts were made to fast track American students into nursing school, and perhaps addressing some of the issues that American nurses have. So in my twisted mind there is a connection between the two.

    Yeah, let the Americans go to school same has the foreign workers do, but if it didn't take so long perhaps the shortage would ease.

    Yes, there's plenty of work to be had for all of us.
    Last edit by Tweety on Jul 4, '05
  9. by   sunnyjohn
    Well, if you are an American nurse and you take a job that is halfway accross the country and you do not press for relocation money, then you have a problem. That hospital needs you and SHOULD provide you with money to move and find a place to live. They pay for American travellers, so why can't they pay for a new permenant staff member.

    I see relocation bonuses in the thousands of dollars for new nurse graduates and nurses trying to relocate.

    If they want me to move, then by-gum, they'll help pay for it!

    The position of the CNA with regard to foreign nurses and housing is to ensure that these newcomers are not taken advantage of by unscrupulous landlords who jack up the rents because they know that these men and women are unaware of the going rate and not sure who to complain to. There are documented cases in the past of nurses coming to the US and being taken advantage of in this way, both by their agency, landlords and hospitals.

    Suzanne, the moderator in the International forum would have more info, but there are still cases of foreign nurses being brought to the US and working as nurse techs or CNA's. Although they have their BSN and years of nursing experience, their agency encouraged them to enter the country before all their licensing documentation was complete. This is why all nurse who immigrate are encouraged not to come UNTIL they have received the Green card that makes them a US perm. resident.

    I do not believe in everything the CNA says, but with parts of this position they are simply trying to PREVENT the erosion of the nursing profession and the cheapening of its value by ensuring that immigration labor is not a "cheap way out" for the hospitals.

    The answer to the nursing "shortage" is as simple as the three 'R's';

    RECRUIT, RETAIN, RETRAIN
  10. by   lee1
    The answer to the nursing "shortage" is as simple as the three 'R's';

    RECRUIT, RETAIN, RETRAIN
    And I say make besides the above, make working conditions attractive, keep RN/pt ratios safe, make salaries/benefits comparative AND nurses who have worked more than 25 years should have some sort of pension/retirment with medical benefits just as police, teachers, fire fighters.
  11. by   fergus51
    Quote from Tweety
    Fergus, I see you're point.

    My main beef is that foreign workers are not allowed in the US to take jobs American want. I have a Korean national friend who has to leave the US because of this law, but that's just the way it is. He's degreed in a field where there's no shortage.

    I'm going to have to disagree with your idea that we should have to compete with foreing nurses for jobs. But it's a moot point.

    To say that these foreign workers are taking jobs Americans don't want doesn't quite ring true to me when there are waiting lists of Americans who want to be nurses. But yes, as I've said there is room for us all. Right now it's true, there are not enough Americans in the workforce to fulfill the need and I support bringing in the foreign nurse.

    The connection between the waiting lists and foreign workers to me is that the government fast tracks them to citazenship and working here. I wish more efforts were made to fast track American students into nursing school, and perhaps addressing some of the issues that American nurses have. So in my twisted mind there is a connection between the two.

    Yeah, let the Americans go to school same has the foreign workers do, but if it didn't take so long perhaps the shortage would ease.

    Yes, there's plenty of work to be had for all of us.
    I should clarify that when I say "compete", I just mean that Americans need to be competent for the job they are applying for. If they aren't and a foreigner is, then it seems incredibly stupid to give it to the American. I know there are tons of Americans who want to be nurses. Heck, I want to be a size 6. Doesn't mean I should buy the dress today when it doesn't fit :chuckle By the same token, Americans who can't do the job shouldn't be hired. I consider myself pro-nursing, but that means being pro-patient first and it isn't safe to put nationality above competence when hiring nurses.
  12. by   Tweety
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    Well, if you are an American nurse and you take a job that is halfway accross the country and you do not press for relocation money, then you have a problem.

    I got my reimbursed for my move when I moved from NC to FL, $800.00 for the movers. But I wasn't flown down, didn't get free housing and all the other perks they give the Filipino nurses. Not that I think I should, but it wasn't an option. I guess I could have asked and demanded just to see what would have happened.
  13. by   Tweety
    Quote from fergus51
    I should clarify that when I say "compete", I just mean that Americans need to be competent for the job they are applying for. If they aren't and a foreigner is, then it seems incredibly stupid to give it to the American. I know there are tons of Americans who want to be nurses. Heck, I want to be a size 6. Doesn't mean I should buy the dress today when it doesn't fit :chuckle By the same token, Americans who can't do the job shouldn't be hired. I consider myself pro-nursing, but that means being pro-patient first and it isn't safe to put nationality above competence when hiring nurses.

    I agree and disagree.

    I think it's reprehensible for an organization to invest their money in bringing in a foreign nurse, rather than invest the same amount in hiring a new grad. As some hospitals are known to do.

    We have different experiences as I remember from another conversation. Your experience is that they are RNs, top notch, ready to roll. My experience was they haven't passed NCLEX and needed months of orientation. So perhaps that's why I feel it's better to hire an American new grad and train them, rather than invest all that energy in a Foreign worker. My hospital's answer to using agency and travel nurses was both. They invested heavily in recruitment of new grads and scholarship programs for those in school, and brought over a lot of Filipino nurses. (In the past they did the same in Canada when jobs where scarce in the 90s up there). But according to the VP, the priority was the new grad.

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