Number of Philippine Nurses Emigrating Skyrockets - page 17

The Philippines exports 15,000 nurses a year, and it's estimated that 1 in 10 Filipinos now works abroad. The nursing drain could have a crippling effect on the Philippines healthcare system. ... Read More

  1. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from Tweety
    I agree with much of what you say. Please note that most of our beef is not with the nurses themselves, and there's no need for us to "give them a break".

    I acknowledge we are an immigrant nation and support that. I acknowledge that without Fillopino nurses my hospital would be in dire straights, as would the community and I appreciate their their hard work and efforts.

    My beef is with a system that has thousands of American students on waiting lists around the country wanting to take RN jobs. Our priority should be to educate them and give them the jobs. Which still may allow for immigration.

    My beef is with hospitals who prefer to hire foreign workers, rather than invest in training new grad nurses.

    Tweety, you nailed it in the right spot. That is ultimately the our "beef". Not the immigrants or race itself. That is the problem right there, the hospitals who prefer to hire foreign workers, rather than invest in training new grad nurses.

    I have an example, in Puerto Rico (being a U.S. territory) and them being U.S citizens, why don't they recruit RN's from their. They take the same NCLEX (only in Spanish) etc; yet when they come here they can't get their license because they must take a refresher course etc. (Again, imposing hoops and walls to jump over). They don't need visa's they just need a job period.

    Bottom line, I have a feeling that this is the hospital's goals. It's all about saving $, and in their own interest not of the nurse or even patient.
    Last edit by Jessy_RN on Jul 2, '05
  2. by   sunnyjohn
    PR has its own shortage issues. Nurses there DO leave in droves for higher paying jobs on the US mainland. There are not nearly enough PR nurses in the territory to support its own healthcare needs.

    The challenge for PR has become an excercise in recruitment; encouraging their own nurses and new graduates to stay as well as bringing in enough people to take care of the growing population.

    The nursing schools in PR are also experiencing the same problems that schools on the mainland do.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Jul 2, '05
  3. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    PR has its own shortage issues. Nurses there DO leave in droves for higher paying jobs on the US mainland. There are not nearly enough PR nurses in the territory to support its own healthcare needs.

    The challenge for PR has become an excercise in recruitment; encouraging their own nurses and new graduates to stay as well as bringing in enough people to take care of the growing population.

    The nursing schools in PR are also experiencing the same problems that schools on the mainland do.
    That's odd because as far as I was concerned there is NO shortage in PR. Maybe because I haven't read it or heard it anywhere in the news, especially while living there and having half of my family there (many of them nurses). I dunno, I may be crazy then
  4. by   sunnyjohn
    Admittedly, I am new to this (just five years). However I have become leery of the term "nursing shortage".

    I think their is a shortage of nurses willing to put up with nonsense. I also think their is "shortage" of nurse willing to continue to accept the irrational demands on the profession.

    Our insurance base has lead hospital management to feel that nurse labor is fluid. It has lead to the degradation of nurse staffing, conditions and wages.

    What does it say that nursing students in many states wait for years for clincial positions?

    What does it say that many of our new graduates burn out and leave the profession within 5-years of entering?

    Why put up with nonsense when you top out your earnings potential 5-years into your career (unless your a traveller, agency, or work in the states of CA or NY)?

    Yes, I know, every career has its demands. And yes, I know many nurses leave the bedside to to take other positions in the field. Yes, I also know (and believe) that their are many areas in the country considered underserved.

    But still I think this "shortage" can largely be addressed by wooing those who have left the job and by training and RETAINING those who enter.

    The foreign-born nurse is the same to me as every other who seeks a new life on our shores. They just happen to hold the title of 'nurse' at a time when nursing issues and healthcare issues are in flux.

    I welcome them.
    Last edit by sunnyjohn on Jul 2, '05
  5. by   tizmonster
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    Admittedly, I am new to this (just five years). However I have become leery of the term "nursing shortage".

    I think their is a shortage of nurses willing to put up with nonsense. I also think their is "shortage" of nurse willing to continue to accept the irrational demands on the profession.

    Our insurance base has lead hospital management to feel that nurse labor is fluid. It has lead to the degradation of nurse staffing, conditions and wages.

    What does it say that nursing students in many states wait for years for clincial positions?

    What does it say that many of our new graduates burn out and leave the profession within 5-years of entering?

    Why put up with nonsense when you top out your earnings potential 5-years into your career (unless your a traveller, agency, or work in the states of CA or NY)?

    Yes, I know, every career has its demands. And yes, I know many nurses leave the bedside to to take other positions in the field. Yes, I also know (and believe) that their are many areas in the country considered underserved.

    But still I think this "shortage" can largely be addressed by wooing those who have left the job and by training and RETAINING those who enter.

    The foreign-born nurse is the same to me as every other who seeks a new life on our shores. They just happen to hold the title of 'nurse' at a time when nursing issues and healthcare issues are in flux.

    I welcome them.
    I think the profession in many ways needs to have a "business process re-engineering" effort.

    The problems with this profession is systemic. You have Associate degreed nurses being paid the same wage as BSN's. This is the only profession I know of that equates both educations the same. I can also tell you that my experience with RN's is that a lot of ADN's can run rings around their BSN counterparts. The difference...Applied science vs theory and little application.

    This won't be popular - but my observation is if we could have the industry go to a 40 hour work week - working 5 - 8 hour shifts - you would not have nurses as burned out. 8 hours of dealing with critically sick individuals and keeping it straight so every one comes out well on their watch isn't easy. This working 12 - 13 hour shifts is nuts and very old school.

    Until the nursing profession can cut ties with an hourly paid employee mentality and become professional...you are never going to earn the respect you want in the industry. This is a massive change - but just approaching the field in this matter would make a better impact on those that wish to pursue this career path.

    Do you know the stats on nurse shortage by 2010 is 800,000 nurses. That is massive - we can sit and complain about it - or we can develop an action plan that should address it. When I went to school in the seventies - there was a shortage of folks in the mental health arena. I actually earned a full ride (room and board, and tuition ) @ Ohio University if I would agree to graduate and work in the field in the state of Ohio for One year. I also received a stipend from the state of Ohio for 4 years of 150.00 per month if I agreed to do this. I probably wouldn't have pursued the profession...but I wanted a degree. I made that comittment and fulfilled my obligations. I left the field after a year and 1/2 - but I utilized the skills I learned in that in my day to day business life - even to this day. If you could get hospitals to buy
    your college debt - that would be helpful - in exchange for your professional services. Massive impact on communities when they sponsor students...economic, and the health of their communities improve. Stands to reason that some one with an advanced degree would contribute the tax base in a bigger way than those with a high school diploma. Instructors are not being deemed important in nursing and are underpaid. Need to take that to a new level. The whole thing needs a revamp. It's quite a mess.
  6. by   afhroends
    Lee you are so blessed to belong in a highly developed country. But if you happen to be a citizen of a third world country like myself, you are left with no choice but to leave your homeland to seek a better future, and largely, to support a family or families back home. I hope that you can at least empathize with our sentiments, for if the economic and political situations in our country are stable, then there is absolutely no reason at all for us to leave, then, we wouldn't have to endure the sarcasm, and bigotry of other nations.

    Do you honestly think we find absolute pleasure in leaving our country to be workers and even slaves of other countries?

    This is a very sensitive issue which can only be answered by my government. In much the same way that your government should be answerable to you for opening up America's door to us, international nurses, for "helping" third world countries like mine, and for spending billions of your precious dollars on other international issues, rather than dealing with domestic ones.

    Perhaps we can do something so as not to be caught in the crossfire? Peace.
  7. by   underwatergirl
    Tizmonster, nice posting however I do have to disagree on the 8 vs 12 hr thing...I personally feel more replenished working the 12 because I get another day off. I think the burn out exist due to nurses not taking breaks, not taking care of themselves, slaughtering each other, working with outrageous patient loads, and unsupportive managers(damn that word looks spelled wrong...lol). I think nurses mainly reach burn out due to not taking care of themselves, mainly not taking breaks when needed, not asking for help...partially this lies on supervisors head too for not enforcing breaks and not helping when help is needed. However I think all hospital nursing should be 12 hours...promotes more off time and time with one's family. Because lets face it, nursing is mentally and emotionally draining career and we need recupe time to deal appropriate with this...however I also feel that once a month a nurse should have a day, preferable around other days off..that gives him/her a 4-5 day time off and it should be paid. This will prevent burn out...

    On another note I feel as if alot of nurses burn themselves out..they choice to continue to work in stressful, inappropriate, unsafe positions...when really they should leave for a different nursing field.

    Again only my observations and opinions. The rest of your post I fully agree with you!!!
  8. by   hope3456
    Quote from sunnyjohn
    Admittedly, I am new to this (just five years). However I have become leery of the term "nursing shortage".

    I think their is a shortage of nurses willing to put up with nonsense. I also think their is "shortage" of nurse willing to continue to accept the irrational demands on the profession.

    Our insurance base has lead hospital management to feel that nurse labor is fluid. It has lead to the degradation of nurse staffing, conditions and wages.

    What does it say that nursing students in many states wait for years for clincial positions?

    What does it say that many of our new graduates burn out and leave the profession within 5-years of entering?

    Why put up with nonsense when you top out your earnings potential 5-years into your career (unless your a traveller, agency, or work in the states of CA or NY)?

    Yes, I know, every career has its demands. And yes, I know many nurses leave the bedside to to take other positions in the field. Yes, I also know (and believe) that their are many areas in the country considered underserved.

    But still I think this "shortage" can largely be addressed by wooing those who have left the job and by training and RETAINING those who enter.

    The foreign-born nurse is the same to me as every other who seeks a new life on our shores. They just happen to hold the title of 'nurse' at a time when nursing issues and healthcare issues are in flux.

    I welcome them.
    You bring up a very good point - there are so many students trying to get in to nsg school here in the U.S. that it is ridiculous. And this whole business of bringing in the foreign workers b/c there is a shortage (supposedly) is a slap across the face to all these americans who want to be nurses, but can't get into a program.

    Just a thought, but these hospitals that are spending $big money$ to recruit oversees should be putting that money into nursing education here in the U.S. I have heard it said that the real reason for the shortage is that it costs so much for colleges to educate nursing students that they just don't have the funds to put out more graduates. In my area, the local hospital pays for 2 instructors every year, and this area (northern colorado) really doesn't have a shortage.
  9. by   fergus51
    All those Americans waiting to get into programs may not make good nurses. Attrition rates are very high in many schools and many new grads leave the profession after a few years.
  10. by   Tweety
    Quote from fergus51
    All those Americans waiting to get into programs may not make good nurses. Attrition rates are very high in many schools and many new grads leave the profession after a few years.

    I still think greater emphasis should be placed on giving them the chance. Perhaps there might be as many good nurses and nurses who would stick to the profession if given the chance.

    As I said before, I think there's room for both: advancing the cause of those waiting years to get into nursing school, and using foreign trained workers to ease the shortage.
    Last edit by Tweety on Jul 3, '05
  11. by   Tweety
    Quote from afhroends
    Perhaps we can do something so as not to be caught in the crossfire? Peace.
    I hope you realize that, while some may lash out at you, most of us have no problems with you trying to better your lot in life. It's the foundation of America that people from other lands come here to better their life. It's source of pride for many of us living here.

    The issue is not you personally, although I can see how it would feel that way. I'm sorry for that.
  12. by   hope3456
    Quote from fergus51
    All those Americans waiting to get into programs may not make good nurses. Attrition rates are very high in many schools and many new grads leave the profession after a few years.
    I agree with you. schools need to do a better job at screening students. Nursing is popular now b/c it has the reputation of being a high paying job so it is attracting alot on nontraditional students who do not have a realistic view of what it takes to be a nurse.
  13. by   fergus51
    Quote from Tweety
    I still think greater emphasis should be placed on giving them the chance. Perhaps there might be as many good nurses and nurses who would stick to the profession if given the chance.

    As I said before, I think there's room for both: advancing the cause of those waiting years to get into nursing school, and using foreign trained workers to ease the shortage.
    I'm all for it too. My only problem is when these two issues become intermingled. Foreign nurses coming here have nothing to do with nursing schools in America not producing enough nurses. Hospitals are businesses and so it only makes sense for them to hire actual nurses rather than invest in an American who may or may not make it through an expensive nursing program. That's not their responsibility. Insisting that they need to do that or that the government needs to do it smacks of overreaching government to me and that's something most Americans rail against. Planning for the future is great, but it doesn't diminish the need for skilled immigrants NOW.

    And I admit as a pseudo-foreigner myself I do get offended at the "Americans first" attitude at times, especially when the immigrants we are taking in are the cream of the crop. They contribute far more to this country than many native born citizens or we wouldn't accept them in the first place. I take a slightly different view of "Americans who can compete first". If they can't work with me tonight on the unit, I don't care that they were born here. If an American wants the job, I say let them put themselves through nursing school like the rest of us and come on in There are plenty of jobs for all of us!

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