Number of Philippine Nurses Emigrating Skyrockets - page 16

The Philippines exports 15,000 nurses a year, and it's estimated that 1 in 10 Filipinos now works abroad. The nursing drain could have a crippling effect on the Philippines healthcare system. ... Read More

  1. by   edelatorre99
    I believe the real reason why there's a shortage of nurses in the Philippines is the economy. So what else is new? Where in the world can you find a country where you have to pay the hospital an average of P20,000 just for a nursing internship program? That really sucks. Unfortunately, I will be a victim of this system since I'm planning to come home to enroll in a certified nurse aid program.
  2. by   MOBITZ
    Quote from allamericangirl
    The safety of patients is the issue that should be given utmost consideration in importing foreign nurses to US hospitals. A thread just posted by a foreign nurse here at all nurses makes an vivid case that patients could suffer unintentional but obvious harm by a nurse that has not been indoctrinated in the same social values and laws as nurses in the US. OMG! Please read this post and you will see.
    Thread: We have this med order , read the Original Post and then post #5.
    The poster of #5 means no harm because what he/she suggests is acceptable thinking in their country, but it is not acceptable in the US! What this person said is so frightening that it made my hair stand on end.

    I'd copy and paste it all over here, but I don't know if that is allowed.

    there would be isolated cases like these, I will not generalize a group just because i had these experience with these particular nurse, I would approach it professionally by confronting her, guide or correct her and if she still continue to practice the same thing, my next step would be the charge or supervisor,follow the chain of command. these needs to be addressed coz our priority is patients safety. Do not hesitate to confront this nurse because you were just acting as a prudent nurse would.
  3. by   earthlovers123
    Good post
  4. by   Jessy_RN
    Wow, that's a lot of nurses. Don't they usually come here with their families as well? I don't know any Phiillipinos but know alot of hispanic nurses who come here, get paid very little and they are happy as can be. They take it gratefully because in their home country they would never dream of making what they make here.

    Maybe that is part of the reasons why nursing conditions don't improve?
  5. by   sunnyjohn
    From the information I gleaned from the International nurse forum on all nurses and my own private research, nurses from the Philippines immigrate with none or fewer dependents as evidenced by the number of dependent requests on their visa applications. Many come alone and have family join them later if the situation warrants.

    Check out the great info is this thread (post 375): http://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104713


    This is just a personal observation, but US ideals quickly rub off on people no matter where they immigrate form. Yes, you may always cling to your cultural ideals and standards, but non-US nurses quickly learn that in the US they have rights.

    I have seen foreign-born workers who are the most vocal about pay laws and work conditions, mainly because they know how precious those rights are.
  6. by   underwatergirl
    This is my take on this situation. I do have serious issues with it. Not because it is a different race. I am USA born and raised and proud of it. I have several foreign nursing friends who are exceptional at his/her jobs. But I will tell you this...they made the effort...to be a part of our society. What I mean is they learned to speak english that was understandable. Big issue, a huge part of nursing is communication...If I can't understand you, I really don't value what you have to say...Sorry just how I feel.

    Now I know for a fact that several foreign nurses were offered "perks" that us american nurses have never been offered. Housing pay, simular to that of military standards for the ENTIRE length of employment...every year contract was renewed. I don't think it is good to do such things for one nurse to the next nurse. Equality is what I ask for however I need to take care of my own first, meaning my fellow american nurses. Which leads me to my next point....

    I have no problem with the government opening doors to immigration based nursing...however I want to see a law implemented that when demand is low and supply is high...that AMERICAN NURSES get jobs before foreign nurses...Again protecting my own. I believe the biggest problem with this, is that all that we have fought for could be lost due to the immigration of foreign nurses...when america offers a better life for their loved ones, he/she most likely will accept less than what the counterpart would...meaning higher patient load, less benefits, more problems with employment rights. Those unfort. a more appealing matter to employers.

    So I say let the foreign nurses come to our country to better his/her life on these conditions...they better be prepared to accept our society standards and speak our language and the government better implement a law to make sure that american nurses don't go jobless due to overwhelming foreigners. If I was going to your country...I would give no less. I would conform to your society standards. In so doing I don't feel I loose my culture but rather integrate it with another. I am sorry our culture don't fit them, then I suggest they stay in their own country with their own culture. America is unique in our diversity...but we must have our culture or we will only be a some what of a part of another country...I fight for our uniqueness and individualness.

    So often america goes to the defense of the less fortunate in return slaughter her own. We have homeless while immigrants are working...again our own being slaughtered. That is wrong...you must stand by your own before defending others. I say you wanna come to this country then you gotta be willing to fight hard enough to be here, accept our langauge, culture, and society. DO NOT enforce yours on ours...if I wanna know your langauge or culture or society I will go there. But here in America we speak english, we demand respect and equality from our employeers, and most of us play harder than we work(not quite me but most do I will admit).

    I am sorry if this is offensive to anyone but it is my opinion and my ability to ensure I have a job and my fellow american's have jobs at decent standards and we do not loose what we have gained or our culture!
  7. by   Jessy_RN
    [QUOTE=underwatergirl]This is my take on this situation. I do have serious issues with it. Not because it is a different race. I am USA born and raised and proud of it. I have several foreign nursing friends who are exceptional at his/her jobs. But I will tell you this...they made the effort...to be a part of our society. What I mean is they learned to speak english that was understandable. Big issue, a huge part of nursing is communication...If I can't understand you, I really don't value what you have to say...Sorry just how I feel.

    Underwatergirl, I don't feel anything you said was offensive at all. I agree with what you said. America should take care of their own first. I also agree with the people who say that there is a shortage of nurses willing to work under current situations. Heck I know many of them who have left the field after so many years and chose to work doing something else (including family members). If the solution is bringing more foreign nurses then I can't see how conditions will more than likely improve.

    My opinion too has nothing to do with race issues etc. I was born to foreign parents who came to this country in search of a better life. They learned the language, educated themselves and became very productive citizens to society. I agree witht the above poster, we should take care and appreciate our own first and then look elsewhere.

    Have a good day everyone
  8. by   sunnyjohn
    The culture of America is this; freedom forged from a commitment to diversity.

    It is our diversity and commitment to freedom and the preservation of rights that make us great.

    Millions of our antecendents came to these shores, whether freeman or bondsman, all seeking a better life. Their transition from foriegn to American with time became complete with the understanding of the personal strength US freedoms provided.

    The same will happen with these wonderful men and women. They have committed themselves twice to a noble cause; the care of the sick and the pursuit of a new life on our shores.
  9. by   tizmonster
    Quote from underwatergirl
    This is my take on this situation. I do have serious issues with it. Not because it is a different race. I am USA born and raised and proud of it. I have several foreign nursing friends who are exceptional at his/her jobs. But I will tell you this...they made the effort...to be a part of our society. What I mean is they learned to speak english that was understandable. Big issue, a huge part of nursing is communication...If I can't understand you, I really don't value what you have to say...Sorry just how I feel.

    Now I know for a fact that several foreign nurses were offered "perks" that us american nurses have never been offered. Housing pay, simular to that of military standards for the ENTIRE length of employment...every year contract was renewed. I don't think it is good to do such things for one nurse to the next nurse. Equality is what I ask for however I need to take care of my own first, meaning my fellow american nurses. Which leads me to my next point....

    I have no problem with the government opening doors to immigration based nursing...however I want to see a law implemented that when demand is low and supply is high...that AMERICAN NURSES get jobs before foreign nurses...Again protecting my own. I believe the biggest problem with this, is that all that we have fought for could be lost due to the immigration of foreign nurses...when america offers a better life for their loved ones, he/she most likely will accept less than what the counterpart would...meaning higher patient load, less benefits, more problems with employment rights. Those unfort. a more appealing matter to employers.

    So I say let the foreign nurses come to our country to better his/her life on these conditions...they better be prepared to accept our society standards and speak our language and the government better implement a law to make sure that american nurses don't go jobless due to overwhelming foreigners. If I was going to your country...I would give no less. I would conform to your society standards. In so doing I don't feel I loose my culture but rather integrate it with another. I am sorry our culture don't fit them, then I suggest they stay in their own country with their own culture. America is unique in our diversity...but we must have our culture or we will only be a some what of a part of another country...I fight for our uniqueness and individualness.

    So often america goes to the defense of the less fortunate in return slaughter her own. We have homeless while immigrants are working...again our own being slaughtered. That is wrong...you must stand by your own before defending others. I say you wanna come to this country then you gotta be willing to fight hard enough to be here, accept our langauge, culture, and society. DO NOT enforce yours on ours...if I wanna know your langauge or culture or society I will go there. But here in America we speak english, we demand respect and equality from our employeers, and most of us play harder than we work(not quite me but most do I will admit).

    I am sorry if this is offensive to anyone but it is my opinion and my ability to ensure I have a job and my fellow american's have jobs at decent standards and we do not loose what we have gained or our culture!
    Exhaust the possibility of securing services @ home before sponsorship can be considered. Corporations have to go thru tremendous amounts of paperwork (legal fees) and time to justify sponsorhip of candidates. The RN's that come here have to literally go through hoops to secure sponsorship. Secondly - it is a requirement that RN's that do immigrate to the US be paid in same as their American counterparts. Those nurses that are immigrating here under a housing contract - their compensation will probably equate to hourly wages you receive (It's part of their gross pay). Also, hope you appreciate coming into the US without resources is difficult transition and scary to say the least. (Just imagine you going to Manila and trying to work - you've never been there, and yes you speak Spanish/Tagolog (not sure of the spelling) - but maybe not the type of Spanish they speak in Philippines - it would not be easy). As far as these RN's taking American jobs...There are not enough nurses to take care of the patient population coming into the pipeline, secondly, most of our nurses are in their mid 40's and will be seeking retirement @ the same time the baby boomers are coming into the system. The schools are turning away viable candidates because they can't absorb them in the system. So we're in the process of loosing a lot of the valuable experience that our seasoned nurses bring to the table. Philippine nurses (those that have clinical experience) very much mirror our system, they don't get paid much in their system. All immigrating nurses take years to get here, and are seperated from their families for years after they get here. Give 'em a break. They are - as a whole - a pretty decent bunch of people. And - if I were in a nurse's shoes working in our system - I would invite any and all that can help me treat my patients with optimum care. We need the help. We can not produce the supply of nurse to meet the patient care demands in the short term. The way the system is designed now is detracting people from entering the career path. Plus - there are so many more professional options then there was 25 years ago. Nursing is one of many professions people can choose to pursue today. We need to get a handle on making the healthcare system more attractive to young women and men wishing to come into healthcare. It's set up with some very old processes.
  10. by   underwatergirl
    Tizmonster,

    When I state working at lesser standards then us what I mean by that is this, they may get the pay we get however...they most likely will tolerate less than optimal conditions...something that generations or nurses have fought for in america. In return that relates completely to patient safety for me. Due to the high stress of needing the money to support his/her family, he/she may be willing to work a higher patient load...go shifts without breaks because well don't want to stire a pot. I have seen it with my friends who came here as foreigners...I have attempted to explain and encourage them not to tolerate less of standards. Their reply is, we don't care we need the money for our families. Which scares me cause I do care for the wellbeing of each patient and each nurse...it is not healthy for our patients to have physically draining nurses.

    I am sorry for their harships, but I would expect the same hardships on me if I choose to work in another country...all I ask is that America take care of it's own before it takes care of the others. We have too many homeless, too many problems of our own to step in and fix other situations.

    If america goes overboard by the recruitment of foreign nurses, eventually that demand we have now will not be there and what happens then??? We increase our unemployment, most likely more american nurses laid off..that is what scares me...Not working with or having foreigners in this country...All I want again is America to law and standards into place. Because those foreign nurses will hit a minority...once again we will have a situation that we experience now...foreigners coming to this country being titled as "minority" recieving special treatment and then we kill our own once again. It just is a concern of the possibility of the furture. Some things regarding minorities are needed however not when we kill or take away from our own.

    Thank you for the intelligent respone to my post..hope the above helps to make myself more clear
    Annette
  11. by   Tweety
    Quote from tizmonster
    Exhaust the possibility of securing services @ home before sponsorship can be considered. Corporations have to go thru tremendous amounts of paperwork (legal fees) and time to justify sponsorhip of candidates. The RN's that come here have to literally go through hoops to secure sponsorship. Secondly - it is a requirement that RN's that do immigrate to the US be paid in same as their American counterparts. Those nurses that are immigrating here under a housing contract - their compensation will probably equate to hourly wages you receive (It's part of their gross pay). Also, hope you appreciate coming into the US without resources is difficult transition and scary to say the least. (Just imagine you going to Manila and trying to work - you've never been there, and yes you speak Spanish/Tagolog (not sure of the spelling) - but maybe not the type of Spanish they speak in Philippines - it would not be easy). As far as these RN's taking American jobs...There are not enough nurses to take care of the patient population coming into the pipeline, secondly, most of our nurses are in their mid 40's and will be seeking retirement @ the same time the baby boomers are coming into the system. The schools are turning away viable candidates because they can't absorb them in the system. So we're in the process of loosing a lot of the valuable experience that our seasoned nurses bring to the table. Philippine nurses (those that have clinical experience) very much mirror our system, they don't get paid much in their system. All immigrating nurses take years to get here, and are seperated from their families for years after they get here. Give 'em a break. They are - as a whole - a pretty decent bunch of people. And - if I were in a nurse's shoes working in our system - I would invite any and all that can help me treat my patients with optimum care. We need the help. We can not produce the supply of nurse to meet the patient care demands in the short term. The way the system is designed now is detracting people from entering the career path. Plus - there are so many more professional options then there was 25 years ago. Nursing is one of many professions people can choose to pursue today. We need to get a handle on making the healthcare system more attractive to young women and men wishing to come into healthcare. It's set up with some very old processes.

    I agree with much of what you say. Please note that most of our beef is not with the nurses themselves, and there's no need for us to "give them a break".

    I acknowledge we are an immigrant nation and support that. I acknowledge that without Fillopino nurses my hospital would be in dire straights, as would the community and I appreciate their their hard work and efforts.

    My beef is with a system that has thousands of American students on waiting lists around the country wanting to take RN jobs. Our priority should be to educate them and give them the jobs. Which still may allow for immigration.

    My beef is with hospitals who prefer to hire foreign workers, rather than invest in training new grad nurses.

    I work with many Fillipino nurses and adore them. I was a charge nurse when we got six of them at one time in a new unit we opened. We could not have opened the unit without them. I saw first-hand the hoops they had to jump through, how tough it was to adjust away from home, leaving loved ones behind.

    For some of us, there is no ill will towards them. People who take out their anger on the American nursing system on immigrant nurses are misplacing their anger in my opinion.
    Last edit by Tweety on Jul 2, '05
  12. by   sunnyjohn
    From research and analysis I do not think the problems of homelessness is connected to the phenomenon of immigration. I especially think nurse immigration should be viewed differently as the burden of this program falls on the nurse and his or her prospective employer and not any government agency, state or federal.

    IMHO, homelessness in America is a direct result of a poor view of mental health and even worsening social safety net. At the very core is the errosion of the ideas of family cohesiveness and personal reponsibility.

    We are each taught to pull ourselves up me our bootstraps alongside the message of individual freedom and responsibility. Somehow the message becomes lost in the translation.

    We should train more nurse professors to fill the gaping holes in our nurse education system.

    We should use resources to stop the waitlist of thousnds of qualified men and women who wish to enter the professions.

    We should use money to encourage all people, the young, the not-so-young and the career changer to consider nursing.

    We should continue to press our issues until nursing is seen and spoken of with the highest social AND academic regard.

    I long for the day when hospitals DEMAND a nursing diagnosis and consult the way the do MDs, PT's and OT's.

    But let us not disregard the efforts of the men and women who choose to come here from other nations. Their talent and skill (when proven) should be welcomed.
  13. by   underwatergirl
    Tweety, Excellant point...I had all general educ. courses done moving to a particular state with continueing my education...they demanded I retake them, I choose another option, but I have spoke to nurses who had the same problem who just left the idea alone.

    Sunnyjohn, it was just an example of how we always go to bat for other countries instead of taking care of our own first...not a direct relation to foreign nurses...

    I am just concerned that purhaps we will end up with a problem of our American nurses bringing in too many foreigners...I know it is years away...however I would just like to see protection on the fore front first.

    SunnyJohn, outstanding points and very nicely put!

    Annette

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