NLN: 125,000 Qualified Applicants Turned Away From Nursing Programs - page 3

alarming data from the nln's comprehensive survey of all nursing programs evokes wake-up call the national league for nursing has released preliminary data from the 2004 national nursing... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from NRSKarenRN
    Yattaboy + bb members:
    Thread NOT about which degree is better (see search) but LACK of Nursing Educators, facilites and resources to adequately educate persons in nursing.

    Primary reason lack of Nurse Educators: SALARY.

    Salary been the issue for past FORTY YEARS with gap widening past 15 years ---so what can be done about it?

    Primary reason lack of facilities: Expense ratio per student
    Requires more money than say a business/education program so colleges not willing to invest in space for students/faculty. Clinical Sites: most state BON require 1:8 educator/student ratio. Often competing in teaching facilites with med students/allied health students for conference and PATIENTS!

    Resources: Nursing textbooks and teaching material, patient simulators cost $$$$ compaired other programs.

    Now lets use the nursing process to work on these issues.
    excellent steerage back to OT. Thank you! I still say, to keep qualified instructors coming in, they better think about compensating them more commensurate to their experience and education. Unless that is done, we are in trouble. Period. It's not about BSN versus ADN at all. It's about compensating educators fairly that we may attract and keep quality instructors teaching "the next generation". They deserve to be treated better.
  2. by   RN4NICU
    Quote from kukitty
    She isn't wanting to teach her "betters." She wants to teach ADN.
    That was part of the point I was trying to make - instructors must have a HIGHER degree than the one offered in the program they want to teach in. The exception would be doctoral degree programs, because that is a terminal degree.
  3. by   kukitty
    Quote from efiebke
    during actual or potentially heated discussions/debates, keep the focus on the topic and not your fellow bulletin board member.

    the administrative team
    i'll rephrase. i've seen many adns that have had a miserable work environment because they are looked down upon by bsns. it probably has a lot to do with the fact that there isn't a pay difference (or a big one at least). this kind of pay policy goes right into the nursing shortage. people need to be payed a fair amount, and have fair working conditions.

    a wise nurse once gave me a bit of advice. i was doing my administrator training in her nursing home, and was contemplating on going back to school to become a nurse even though i already had my bachelor's degree in administration. i wanted to be more involved in the caring side of the industry. i wanted a bsn, but could only afford an adn, and i couldn't spend another 3-4 years for another degree. i just didn't want that stigma of "only an associate's"

    she said that if i got my bsn i should always remember: my adn colleague passed the same exam as me with only two years' preparation.

    adns may not have the luxury of an extra 2 yrs. prep time, and they don't get the kind of in-depth look at issues in nursing that a bachelor's can offer, but they work hard, and they prepare hard. why should we make it more difficult? why should we drive away nurses in the middle of a shortage? in a field where the conditions are tough, some of the toughest around on the floor, why should we attack our brothers and sisters? we should band together. a sense of community would go far to decrease the flood of caregivers leaving this field. there must be an attitude shift, or it won't matter how high the salary is or how many can actually get off the wait-list and graduate. who wants to work with colleagues who look down on your education or your age, when you could graduate with an easier degree and work in a nice, safe office and fulfill your desire to care by volunteering?
  4. by   old rural nurse
    In our rural area, the only nurses who make big bucks are the ones working for the hospital, or who have their own company. When I was looking for another position apart from a local hospital, I looked at several other types of postions, office nurse, county health, LTC and even state surveyor, and found I would have to take a significant pay cut anywhere I went. (But it was worth it!) Anyway, it makes it hard for any other employers to compete for the best nurses. So I am not suprised that instructors are not paid any better than that, but wish it were different. I do think we have to update our methods when it comes to nursing school, but I'm not sure how, you can't learn how to start an IV over the internet!
  5. by   swilk9
    After all the bickering and infighting, we must have only one basic entry level into nursing: BSN.

    It is not about which is a better level of education and service, it is about becoming a profession and controlling the number of graduates each year on a national level. Yes the shortage will get worse initially but it can only be corrected - as opposed to overcorrect - by speaking with one voice. For too long, we have been at the mercy of the American Hospital Association, all of us working for whatever the hospitals are willing give us. Hospitals have many interests besides seeing nurses cared for and as distasteful as it may sound if we are working in a situation of high patient/nurse ratios, without proper equipment, without ancillary services available and with management reminding us "you are a dime a dozen," and "I have a stack of applications a foot high ready to take your place." CARE SUFFERS. Some of our more tenured brethren remember coming to work to find out they were now making less money because the industry had over corrected the nurse shortage - a favorable position for business. In an environment of more nurses then jobs, hospitals hire the minimum number of nurses regulations allow.

    This is the first time in the history of nursing that a shortage will not be fixed quickly because this is not a cyclic phenomenon, it is a demographic shift. It is our opportunity to direct our destiny.

    It is length and level of education that have led other jobs to become a profession and we are overdue.



    Quote:


    Quote from apemsn
    I am a NC nurse educator for an ADN program and the NCBON proposal is obsurd! I recently finished my MSN and fulfilled my residency at a local university and the dislike they (BSN level faculty) have toward the ADN student and programs was surprising to me! Are they threatened? They spend so much time arguing why their students are "better" instead collaborating with the ADN programs to recruit our graduates to the RN to BSN program. We need to work together to save our profession and not work against each other (the different levels of education). ADN and BSN take the same NCLEX! I work with a lot of ADN prepared nurses in the hospital setting and they are excellent nurses. I am also very proud of the competent RNs that graduate from the ADN program. With the current and proposed shortages that are impacting all of us we need to unite and conquer not divide and argue!
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from swilk9
    After all the bickering and infighting, we must have only one basic entry level into nursing: BSN.

    It is not about which is a better level of education and service, it is about becoming a profession and controlling the number of graduates each year on a national level. Yes the shortage will get worse initially but it can only be corrected - as opposed to overcorrect - by speaking with one voice. For too long, we have been at the mercy of the American Hospital Association, all of us working for whatever the hospitals are willing give us. Hospitals have many interests besides seeing nurses cared for and as distasteful as it may sound if we are working in a situation of high patient/nurse ratios, without proper equipment, without ancillary services available and with management reminding us "you are a dime a dozen," and "I have a stack of applications a foot high ready to take your place." CARE SUFFERS. Some of our more tenured brethren remember coming to work to find out they were now making less money because the industry had over corrected the nurse shortage - a favorable position for business. In an environment of more nurses then jobs, hospitals hire the minimum number of nurses regulations allow.

    This is the first time in the history of nursing that a shortage will not be fixed quickly because this is not a cyclic phenomenon, it is a demographic shift. It is our opportunity to direct our destiny.

    It is length and level of education that have led other jobs to become a profession and we are overdue.



    Quote:
    I can agree. However, do you have viable proposals to make this happen in areas where as much as 70% or higher of the RN programs are ADN? I really would love to hear someone actually PROPOSE a workable solution, not just say what "must happen". Cause I dont' see a viable way to make it happen ANY time soon.
  7. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from Yattaboy
    [font=Courier New]Call me the devil but I strongly dislike ADN programs. I am a BSN student graduating in April of this year. I have worked in health care for almost twelve years so I do have experience to speak from. I dislike the fact that I put in more time and effort to recieve my BSN while someone with an ADN will do less academically and yet we recieve the same pay. Yes, I could have gone ADN and not had this issue but I chose the professional route of BSN.
    [font=Courier New]I take great offense when ADN spout their rhetoric of being better trained when they graduate to take care of patients. I find that impossible because the amount of clinical time is quite a bit less and BSN programs teach evidenced based nursing, a mindset not taught to the ADN crowd.
    [font=Courier New]With ~90% accuracy I can meet a nurse and tell you after one shift how they were trained. Its all in how one conducts themself and treats their patients and peers.

    I before E except after C . . . . receive.

    (Sorry Ted and Karen - a moment of weakness).

    steph
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from stevielynn
    I before E except after C . . . . receive.

    (Sorry Ted and Karen - a moment of weakness).

    steph
    rofl bad girl.
  9. by   LPN1974
    Quote from stevielynn
    I before E except after C . . . . receive.

    (Sorry Ted and Karen - a moment of weakness).

    steph

    I know this is off the subject, but I'm also having a moment of weakness.
    I was also taught the I before E except after C rule.....
    Then where do these words fall?
    Weigh
    Weird,
    Weizman
    There may be others, I don't know of.

    Did I miss something in Junior High English?
  10. by   sarita279
    Quote from LPN1974
    I know this is off the subject, but I'm also having a moment of weakness.
    I was also taught the I before E except after C rule.....
    Then where do these words fall?
    Weigh
    Weird,
    Weizman
    There may be others, I don't know of.

    Did I miss something in Junior High English?
    I've got that one! (at least i think so):

    I before E except after C, or when sounded as "ay" as in "neighbor" or "weigh"
  11. by   LPN1974
    Quote from sarita279
    I've got that one! (at least i think so):

    I before E except after C, or when sounded as "ay" as in "neighbor" or "weigh"
    Thanks for clearing that up.
    I do not remeber the last half of that rule.
    If I just never heard it, or the teacher never taught the last half, I'll never know.
    But now, I KNOW. lol
  12. by   germain
    I do NOT see why every nurse needs to take out $$ student loans to go to a 4 year school when that one extra year ( Most "2" year degrees are about 2 3/4) to take what amount to extra classes like foreign language.

    Personally, I think its great that there is a mix of BSN/ADN students, all with different exeriences to contribute to patient care.
  13. by   swilk9
    Because the nature of this shortage is a demographic shift, it will not be solved by more bodies. It has been observed that more nurses will retire in the next ten years than will graduate from all nursing schools-even if will could fill all classrooms to capacity, and the demand for more nurses in the future grows. The ANA has statistics broken down by age which inform us that the largest group of nurses working today are between the ages of 40 to 49. What may happen is a shift to a more mental and less task oriented evolution of our profession. This is the time to take an active position in that change and one way to do this is to see we become more education oriented. It was only 15 years ago the American Medical Association proposed shortening the time to TRAIN a nurse so the shortage at that time could be solved. Could you see RN's trained in a six month program! There will be fewer RN's in the future responsible for more oversight and doing less hands on tasks. Lets be active in our own evolution.




    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I can agree. However, do you have viable proposals to make this happen in areas where as much as 70% or higher of the RN programs are ADN? I really would love to hear someone actually PROPOSE a workable solution, not just say what "must happen". Cause I dont' see a viable way to make it happen ANY time soon.

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