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| No. 20 | 
Oct 09, 2009, 12:18 PM
 Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by Cherybaby  I was not addressing the legalities of the issue. I work in the state of Florida as a Nursing Paralegal (part time) and I am well aware of what the issues are. What I was addressing was this need for nurses to get so possessive about what skill set belongs to them. There are a lot of nurses that feel threatened by CMA's as they are taking away what is "ours". I read the threads quite thoroughly. It was the poster that made that statement that I was directly replying to. That is why I quoted their post in mine.
Thanks Cherybaby,
Further to your statement, don't you find it important for nurses to "protect" their turf, just like MDs do? As you see from some comments here, patients are frequently misled as to who actually is a "nurse" (if anyone is) in their MDs Office...Several years back, the New York State Nurses Association ran a TV campaign highlighting the issue with the motto, "Ask for a REAL Nurse---a REGISTERED Nurse." Since then, however, we have succeeded in restricting use of the term "nurse" in NYState to Rns/LPNs. Progress sometimes comes in small steps, but it's worth continuing to pursue. Thanks again for your input.
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Oct 09, 2009, 12:39 PM
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide NYforlove.
I find it interesting that you are fighting to preserve "NURSE-ONLY" functions when you yourself are not yet a nurse. Your status says nursing student. It might seem, at your current status, that giving an injection is a big deal and should be reserved for nurses and labeled as such, but giving injections in comparison to all the other things nurses do is pale. Maybe it is hard for me to understand where you are coming from since I am in a state that highly regulates the medical assistants in it's state. Maybe because I know that giving and injection is a function that does not require critial thinking that a nurse is trained for. Injections can be taught to some one in an afternoon. In nursing school we only spent one lab day going over injections. In medical assisting school I had to do so many injections on a dummy and then had to be checked off for so many injections on live people to get my certification; that was more than what I got in nursing school. Really, to get up in arms over preserving a "NURSE-ONLY" function like giving an injection seems belittling, I don't want to be thought as some one with a needle; I earned my degree and pride myself as a nurse because of my critical thinking skills...yes something a MA is not trained to do, but not really something needed to give a basic injection.
Thanks HeartsOpenWide,
Yes, in fact I am a nurse (proud to say I obtained my CCRN certification last year in Adult Critical-Care Nursing) but am also a student, as I am now enrolled in an MSN--Nurse Practitioner degree); have been a member of allnurses.com since my prerequisite days and have learned so much from this site (Thanks Brian!). I agree--based on what you and others have said--that MAs IN STATES WHERE AUTHORIZED TO DO SO--do receive perhaps EVEN MORE training than Nursing Students in the PHYSICAL ACT of providing injections. (In my nursing school, we were told to bring a grapefruit--or large orange--to class to begin learning.) In addition, as I've noted in previous posts, if MAs are properly trained/educated/licensed/supervised AND THE PATIENT is aware the MA is not a nurse AND the MD is present "in the house," then much of my objection fades; however, I DO THINK that the critical thinking skills and overall health-education background of a Nurse are invaluable in assessing a patient, understanding the type of medication/vaccine involved, being a "check" on the prescriber/med preparer, monitoring for reactions, being aware of med interactions BASED ON THE NURSE'S education that centers around human health---versus MA education, which frankly, revolves largely around physical acts: e.g., the MA can certainly obtain a blood pressure, but is far outstripped by Nurses in evaluating the BP vis-a-vis patient history, meds, compliance, dietary habits, etc. **I believe this is similar reasoning to what Nurse Practitioners (who can prescribe meds in many states) have invoked in opposing psychologists' efforts to obtain prescriptive rights: the psychologists argue that they can take the same Master's in Nursing pharmacology classes that Nurse Practitioners do and thus be just as qualified as NPs to prescribe, whereas, the NPs aptly note that THE ENTIRE EDUCATION/Training of a nurse from pre-requisites to obtaining the RN license revolves around the entirety of human health--infancy, maternity, physical, psych, diseases--and NOT merely psychological, which is what psych education covers.
| | No. 22 |
Oct 09, 2009, 04:29 PM
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by nyforlove Thanks Cherybaby,
Further to your statement, don't you find it important for nurses to "protect" their turf, just like MDs do? As you see from some comments here, patients are frequently misled as to who actually is a "nurse" (if anyone is) in their MDs Office...Several years back, the New York State Nurses Association ran a TV campaign highlighting the issue with the motto, "Ask for a REAL Nurse---a REGISTERED Nurse." Since then, however, we have succeeded in restricting use of the term "nurse" in NYState to Rns/LPNs. Progress sometimes comes in small steps, but it's worth continuing to pursue. Thanks again for your input.
It is precisely because MDs have "protected their turf" for so long that we have such a hard time gaining respect and reimbursement for advance nurse practitioners, and indeed the role of nurses themselves.
Ask for a real nurse, a registered nurse? Way to alienate all the LPNs, who are in fact real nurses, too.
I am not impressed with your crusade. I'd be happy to let the MAs give all the injections. It is not rocket science, no matter how many times you repeat the "18 gauge needle" story. Guess what, I've got my own story from a month ago, from a BSN who had been out of school for over 6 months who asked me if she could just draw up that 50cc bag of potassium and give it IV push, since she couldn't find a pump. One stupid mistake by a nurse doesn't paint the entire profession, and it shouldn't with MAs either.
All this protesting, it just comes across as petty and insecure. Wage your crusade, pat yourself on the back, but don't expect all nurses to follow you with a pitchforks and torches.
| | No. 23 |
Oct 09, 2009, 04:53 PM
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by FairyCari IF I am going to get an injection, I want a NURSE. I had an MA give me an injection once, and lemme tell you, I can tell the difference..
Do you really think that simply being a nurse makes one instantly great at giving injections? I'm quite certain that each one had a different technique for how they gave it. I have been in the military for 12yrs now & have had someone learning how to give injections (& we don't practice on plastic arms or oranges either) for the first time, a medic/corpsman, a nurse, an NP, a PA-C, and an MD give me injections. There was no difference in how they felt.
Having received my training in the military, the only certification on the civilian side that I hold is an NR-EMT license. I've been giving injections for 10 yrs now (within the military of course) and I would hope that someone would care more about my experience than a title. I'm currently in an RN program now and when I do get that title, I'm pretty sure the way I give injections won't change a bit.
I have worked with some phenomenal MA's and definitely think it is a wonderful position. Seriously, people are going to be really upset with nurses having to do the injections? Like they don't have enough to do already. So when the patients start having to wait longer for a nurse to do it, then the gripes of how come the MA can't do it will start.  | | No. 25 |
Oct 09, 2009, 08:13 PM
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections
Interesting to see some nurses getting upset because MA's are giving out shots but then they dont understand why physicians are upset about nurses wanting to practice medicine w/o supervision.
| | No. 26 |
Oct 09, 2009, 08:40 PM
Updated
Oct 09, 2009 at 08:48 PM by HeartsOpenWide
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by nyforlove Thanks HeartsOpenWide,
Yes, in fact I am a nurse (proud to say I obtained my CCRN certification last year in Adult Critical-Care Nursing) but am also a student, as I am now enrolled in an MSN--Nurse Practitioner degree); have been a member of allnurses.com since my prerequisite days and have learned so much from this site (Thanks Brian!). I agree--based on what you and others have said--that MAs IN STATES WHERE AUTHORIZED TO DO SO--do receive perhaps EVEN MORE training than Nursing Students in the PHYSICAL ACT of providing injections. (In my nursing school, we were told to bring a grapefruit--or large orange--to class to begin learning.) In addition, as I've noted in previous posts, if MAs are properly trained/educated/licensed/supervised AND THE PATIENT is aware the MA is not a nurse AND the MD is present "in the house," then much of my objection fades; however, I DO THINK that the critical thinking skills and overall health-education background of a Nurse are invaluable in assessing a patient, understanding the type of medication/vaccine involved, being a "check" on the prescriber/med preparer, monitoring for reactions, being aware of med interactions BASED ON THE NURSE'S education that centers around human health---versus MA education, which frankly, revolves largely around physical acts: e.g., the MA can certainly obtain a blood pressure, but is far outstripped by Nurses in evaluating the BP vis-a-vis patient history, meds, compliance, dietary habits, etc. **I believe this is similar reasoning to what Nurse Practitioners (who can prescribe meds in many states) have invoked in opposing psychologists' efforts to obtain prescriptive rights: the psychologists argue that they can take the same Master's in Nursing pharmacology classes that Nurse Practitioners do and thus be just as qualified as NPs to prescribe, whereas, the NPs aptly note that THE ENTIRE EDUCATION/Training of a nurse from pre-requisites to obtaining the RN license revolves around the entirety of human health--infancy, maternity, physical, psych, diseases--and NOT merely psychological, which is what psych education covers.
Again, I am sure some of my frustration in posts like this is that I am in a state where the MA is highly regulated with scopes of practice and codes of what they can or cannot do. MAs in my state are trained to give injections and how to watch and react to a patient reaction. Granted, what they MA can inject (and only by direct order by the physician/NP--no PRN type meds) is defined under scope of practice as well...in addition to of course the physician or NP being on the premises. I think the rest of the country would benefit from modeling their MA practice/regulation after California; granted we are a highly regulated state all around. If more MAs were required to be trained and certified under specifically defined scopes of practice then the MA would not have such a bad rep; which is inferiorating to me because I get red in the face when I red post about people that bash MAs...I just have to remind myself that in most parts of the country MAs are not regulated to the point that I am use to and probably are unsafe; again contrary, to what I am use to.
| | No. 28 |
Oct 10, 2009, 08:15 AM
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by BluegrassRN It is precisely because MDs have "protected their turf" for so long that we have such a hard time gaining respect and reimbursement for advance nurse practitioners, and indeed the role of nurses themselves.
Ask for a real nurse, a registered nurse? Way to alienate all the LPNs, who are in fact real nurses, too.
I am not impressed with your crusade. I'd be happy to let the MAs give all the injections. It is not rocket science, no matter how many times you repeat the "18 gauge needle" story. Guess what, I've got my own story from a month ago, from a BSN who had been out of school for over 6 months who asked me if she could just draw up that 50cc bag of potassium and give it IV push, since she couldn't find a pump. One stupid mistake by a nurse doesn't paint the entire profession, and it shouldn't with MAs either.
All this protesting, it just comes across as petty and insecure. Wage your crusade, pat yourself on the back, but don't expect all nurses to follow you with a pitchforks and torches.
BluegrassRN,
"Pitchforks and torches?"...No, just well-reasoned, thoughtful responses such as yours are what I hope to learn here on allnurses.com...and, so far, I have learned an immense amount re: (il)legality in different jurisdictions, experiences with MA v. RN/LPN injections, actual practices across these united States, and political pros/cons of all sides of the prospective issues. Thanks again for taking the time to post.
| | No. 29 |
Oct 10, 2009, 08:20 AM
Re: Nevada Stops "Medical Assistants" from Giving Injections Originally Posted by petgroomer IMHO, many nurses want to protect their right to give injections in the same way many physicians want to protect their right to use an estethoscope and auscultate a patient.
Every level of education in health care has its own niche: physicians have gotten used to the idea that nurses are able to perform physical assessment, and nurses need to understand that many MAs are qualified to do injections (and are cheaper labor too  ) Generally, the physician don't get fired to hire the nurse, and the nurses won't get "out of the market" just because of the MAs 
Thanks petgroomer,
Yes, I am concerned in part that many MD Offices in NYState flout the NURSE-ONLY law by illegally using MAs to provide injections due to the fact that it deprives NURSES of possible employment. Still, as one who cares about my own health, I prefer a NURSE be the one administering my injections.
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