Napa Valley nursing students draw crowd as they protest use of ATI exam - page 7

nvc nursing students draw crowd as they protest mandatory exam napa valley register - napa,ca,usa about 100 napa valley college nursing students filled the college board room thursday night in... Read More

  1. by   Jolie
    Quote from lizz
    Personally, I'd never put myself in that position to begin with, which is why I bought the ATI practice exams and shared the expense with my classmates.

    Did these students do the ATI practice exams ... which are readily available to anyone who wants them? You can easily view them online if you want to.

    Because if they didn't do the practice exams and prepare then, there's no excuse ... just like there'd be no excuse for not preparing for any exam.

    :typing

    I have no way of knowing whether these students studied using ATI practice exams or not. No matter really, as it is irrelevant information. There are numerous satisfactory ways of preparing for ANY exam. I am sure you are aware that studying ATI practice material is no guarantee of passing, just as taking an NCLEX review is no guarantee of passing that exam either.

    I suspect that you are very idealistic, and have not been practicing nursing long. I don't mean that as a slam, simply a statement of my opinion that you seem to have very strong black and white opinions of this (and other situations on other threads) that I believe will change with time. To state that you'd never put yourself in that position to begin with leads me to believe that you haven't had enough experience in nursing to realize that professional nurses find themselves in all sorts of less-than-ideal situations that are not ALWAYS of their own choosing or making. A critical thinker will find a way out of such a situation in a manner that does not compromise their professionalism. I believe that is exactly what these students have accomplished.
  2. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from nursemi


    SO NURSE OVERALL.....

    You don't want anyone who is smarter than you
    You believe in NOT complying with procedures
    You don't know statistics
    You don't like to research
    Now that you got yours, who cares about others
    .

    Oh my God! This thread has gotten so bitter, judgemental and out of control. Is it too much to ask that people chill out on the caps so much? People have their opinions, and don't need to be yelled at. It seems like those in favor of these students cannot let others explain their opinion without blasting them with the insults and the CAPS. Sigh, so much for an intellectual debate.

    This thread is old news, and I'm subscribing out.


    And BTW, I'm pretty sure it's against TOS to have the title Nurse in your username when you haven't earned it.
  3. by   nursemi
    CARDIACRN

    Another Assumption? TOS does not consider MLPN's nurses? If they don't I won't use it -sorry. Or is MLPN's not good enough to be called nurses?

    I have to apologize for the CAPS, people who fail to research before a debate and cries out that they are better and smarter. But yet, admits they want to be a nurse soley for financial gains, and hates beside patient care because its hell and tells you patients are mean.

    All her talk can get to someone.

    I have to apologize. She got me to stoop to her low level.
  4. by   Sheri257
    Quote from nursemi
    I have to apologize for the CAPS, people who fail to research before a debate and cries out that they are better and smarter. But yet, admits they want to be a nurse soley for financial gains, and hates beside patient care because its hell and tells you patients are mean.
    This is ridiculous. When did I say I was better or smarter? I didn't. I didn't do that well on the ATI either... a lot of my classmates did a lot better than I did.

    You're completely missing the point. I am a pragmatist. I did a lot better on HESI but, unfortunately, that didn't count towards our grade. That's going to count for the next class but not ours. Will it help if I complain and moan about it? No ... it's not going to change a thing.

    If you're going to take a standardized test that's more than likely going to be different than the way you've been tested in school, my point was you've got to take the ATI practice exams to try to adjust to that particular testing style ... just like you have to adjust to each individual teacher's testing style every semester.

    Don't get mad at me if you didn't take responsibility, if you didn't take the initiative to do the practice exams and if you didn't pass the ATI. That is not my fault.

    And if you want to drag another thread into this, take it up on that thread. You're completely off topic and that is a violation of the TOS.

    :typing
  5. by   pattyweb
    Our school also used the ATI standardized tests, but instead of being disqualified for not passing, we would have to retake the semester that we didn't pass the test for over again. This was just implemented last year and many students have felt the fall out from it, but it does seem to be working thus far.
  6. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Jolie
    I have no way of knowing whether these students studied using ATI practice exams or not. No matter really, as it is irrelevant information. There are numerous satisfactory ways of preparing for ANY exam.
    I totally disagree with this statement. Yes, there are numerous ways to prepare but, that doesn't mean it's going to be effective.

    You can go into any NCLEX guide, do a bunch of the questions and think you've got it down. Then, when you do another NCLEX guide, the testing style and answers can be completely different.

    None of this stuff is the same. And, because of that, it is essential to take the ATI practice exams, in my opinion. The testing style is very different.

    To say the ATI practice exams are irrelevant for the ATI test is, quite frankly, absurd.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 6, '06
  7. by   Jolie
    Quote from lizz
    I totally disagree with this statement. Yes, there are numerous ways to prepare but, that doesn't mean it's going to be effective.
    :typing
    Again, black and white thinking.

    With time and experience, most professionals (nursing, education, and others) learn that there are many safe, effective and efficient ways of completing a given task, including test preparation. There are numerous studies identifying multiple learning styles, each of which responds best to different teaching/learning/studying methods. It is ridiculous to assume that a particular study guide will provide effective preparation for every candidate, or that a candidate who chooses not to employ that study guide is acting irresponsibly.
  8. by   Jolie
    Quote from lizz

    To say the ATI practice exams are irrelevant for the ATI test is, quite frankly, absurd.

    :typing
    Please don't twist my words. I'm all for lively debate, but it needs to be intellectually honest.

    I did not say that "ATI practice exams are irrelevant for the ATI test". I said that the study methods employed by the students were irrelevant to the question of whether or not they should have been disqualified from the program.
  9. by   Sheri257
    I still disagree. The bottom line is: if you didn't study those practice exams, you were at a disadvantage. If you choose not to use the resources that are available then, who's to blame?

    As you said:

    Professional nurses find themselves in all sorts of less-than-ideal situations that are not ALWAYS of their own choosing or making. A critical thinker will find a way out of such a situation.

    Well ... if you happen to be an auditory learner (just as an example), you still have to adjust, critically think and find your way out of a less than ideal situation. You have to work with what you've got. It's not like the school gives you audio taped versions of textbooks just because you're auditory learner.

    The ATI practice exams are the same situation. You've got to work with what they give you. Why aren't we talking about students using critical thinking skills here because .... doesn't the same principles apply?

    To me, critical thinking in this case is also realizing that not everything is going to be spoon fed to me, they're not going to tell me everything that's going to be on the test, they're not going to prepare me for all of these varying testing styles ... and regardless of how unfair it is ... I better do something about it because I really don't want to waste time hiring lawyers and such.

    And, btw, I've been working in hospitals for two years now. I don't presume to tell you how you think: black, white, purple, green or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 6, '06
  10. by   nursemi
    Sorry, if I violated TOS in any way. I may not be familiar with TOS rules. I need to research that alittle bit more. See, how easy it is to admit your areas of weakness, and to improve them?

    Sorry for the caps Liz.

    Lets all chill and refocus.

    First lets go on the ATI website and focus on the objective of the exam and see if faculty followed its criteria.

    Debates are soooo sensitive.
  11. by   NRSKarenRN
    all the new members participating in this thread.

    please remember to focus on the topic and not individual poster when debating...helps to get your point across without appearing argumentative and avoids flame wars.....

    brief review of our terms of service - all users please read and follow shows debate and moderation regs.

    thanks for keeping this website a fun place to visit.

    stepping down from moderator podium.
  12. by   Jolie
    delete double post
    Last edit by Jolie on Dec 6, '06 : Reason: delete double post
  13. by   Jolie
    Quote from lizz
    I still disagree. The bottom line is: if you didn't study those practice exams, you were at a disadvantage. If you choose not to use the resources that are available then, who's to blame?
    :typing
    So the ATI study guide is the only responsible way to prepare for this test? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    I was fortunate to attend a school where we were taught to learn, not how to take tests. Our exams were never geared toward NCLEX preparation, they were geared toward evaluating our knowledge of material (A&P, patho, disease management, pharmacology, nursing process, ethics, etc.) We took exams that were essay and fill-in-the-blank because these types of tests require a much higher level of learning than multiple choice which simply requires one to recognize, not produce the correct answer. I guess this type of teaching is uncommon these days, which is really sad. Our school consistently had 95-100% NCLEX pass rates, and still does, even without demanding that students pass an artificial "capstone" exam to graduate.

    Granted, I took NCLEX over 20 years ago, before the current form of the test existed, but I found it to be the easiest exam of my college career. No study guides, review classes or pre-tests were needed.


    Time for me to bow out. I applaud the actions of these students, and sincerely hope their efforts will pay off in eliminating the mis-use of these tests.

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