Napa Valley nursing students draw crowd as they protest use of ATI exam - page 2

nvc nursing students draw crowd as they protest mandatory exam napa valley register - napa,ca,usa about 100 napa valley college nursing students filled the college board room thursday night in... Read More

  1. by   woody436
    Uh...forgive me if I'm incorrect, but this wasn't sprung on them as a pop exam?! They were probably informed of this requirement upon entrance to the program or at the very least upon receipt of the syllabus. Why wasn't the complaint made then? They only complained when they didn't pass?
    At my school we have to take the ATI as our EOC examination following the completion of each clinical course which we can only take after passing the final exam. We also have to pass the HESI to graduate and to get our ATT letter. I was made aware of this prior to the beginning of school and realized it's a condition of remaining in the program.

    Sorry, I don 't sympathize with their cause. I do empathize with their having been disqualified.
  2. by   wjf00
    Why not eliminate testing altogether. A little litigation should clear up all those ugly hurdles.
  3. by   pickledpepperRN
    I absolutely think testing is necessary.
    However why grade on the curve?
    Why not require a certain number of correct answers?

    Doesn't failing all who were in the bottom 50% fail half of the test takers?

    If this is not so what am I missing?
  4. by   Jolie
    Quote from wjf00
    Why not eliminate testing altogether. A little litigation should clear up all those ugly hurdles.
    No one is arguing the importance of appropriate and relevant testing. But this school is using this exam to deny students who have SUCCESSFULLY completed the academic program the opportunity to graduate and sit for boards.

    This is not the intended purpose of the ATI.

    It all boils down to the university not having confidence in their own academic program. They are trying to bolster their NCLEX pass rates by eliminating students from the test pool. If they have legitimate reason to question these students' ability to pass NCLEX, then why have they passed their classes with "B" averages? Students with unsatisfactory performance SHOULD have been weeded out of the program long before the final semester! Oh, but that would have cost the university tuition money, wouldn't it?
  5. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from wjf00
    Why not eliminate testing altogether. A little litigation should clear up all those ugly hurdles.
    Funny!


    I had to pass HESI after I finished up all my classes. I got straight A's in NS, but if I failed HESI, then I was out. Trust me, the passing percentile required was higher than 50%. AND, I knew about this requirement prior to accepting my seat in nursing school.

    There's a passing percentile for the NCLEX, too.


    Am I mistaken-or was there only 2 students who couldn't pass their test? If they breezed through NS but couldn't pass this test, then it really says something about their program. IMO...
  6. by   Ex130Load
    My school requires HESI exams, one to get from junior to senior status and one in the senior year after studies are completed. Students have three attempts for each round. We lost two students in my junior year. In the senior year, passing HESI allows students to sit for NCLEX, so you could have a nursing degree and not be allowed to test. I think the senior year cut-off is 850.

    The cut-off is driven by the state nursing board's requirement of schools to have a 75% pass rate on the first NCLEX attempt. Have several years of less than 75% pass rate and school accreditation is jeopardized. The first-time pass rate has been in the mid- to lower 90s, among the best in the state. I wasn't aware of anyone failing HESI three times in the senior year. I further have no problem with my school's method of complying with the nursing board's mandate.

    I did fault the school's testing methodology. My group's proctor didn't tell us that each question's answers assumed a standing prescription was on hand to allow any nursing intervention. For example, the choices may have been: do nothing and observe, give O2, call the MD, give O2 and call the MD. Since nothing in any of the question told me that I could give O2, I didn't chose that answer which was the right choice. This happened 4-5 times, enough that I was one question or so from passing. I was hot when other classmates mentioned their proctors told them of that decision-making factor--had to study additionally prepping for a re-take, the stress of re-testing, and gunking up my first semester off after three intense ones back-to-back.
  7. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from SMK1
    This seems like a legitimate complaint to me.
    And to me.
    If I read the article correctly if every school had this requirement wouldn't half of all senior nursing students fail to graduate?
    WHY GRADE ON THE CURVE?

    ...In order for an NVC student to earn an associate degree in nursing, she must achieve a score within the 50th percentile nationally on the ATI -- meaning she must perform as well as or better than half of those who take the test across the country...
    Napa Valley Register Online | Local Top StoryNews


    California NCLEX pass rates: California Board of Registered Nursing - NCLEX Pass Rates
  8. by   Jolie
    Quote from Ex130Load
    In the senior year, passing HESI allows students to sit for NCLEX, so you could have a nursing degree and not be allowed to test.

    I don't mean to split hairs here, but I believe you are partially incorrect.

    In the senior year, it is not passing HESI that allows a candidate to sit for NCLEX, it is graduating from an approved nursing program that qualifies one for NCLEX. I am not aware of ANY state that requires a passing score on any standarized exam (HESI, ATI, etc.) to qualify one for NCLEX. It is a college degree or diploma that qualifies one for NCLEX.

    As I understand it, this university (and many others) will deny a degree (and/or diploma) to those who do not meet the stated requirements on the pre-NCLEX assessment, regardless of the fact that they have successfully completed the university's curriculum. They refuse to graduate students who they believe may lower their NCLEX pass rates, even though those students maintained a "B" average throughout the nursing program.

    If these students are not qualified to practice as entry-level RN's, NCLEX will bear that out. It is wrong for the university to deny them the opportunity to challenge NCLEX.

    Can you imagine an accounting student who makes "Bs" being denied access to the CPA exam by his/her school? How about a successful law student being denied graduation because the law school thinks he/she may not pass the bar? This is ridiculous!
  9. by   sunnyjohn

    Can you imagine an accounting student who makes "Bs" being denied access to the CPA exam by his/her school? How about a successful law student being denied graduation because the law school thinks he/she may not pass the bar? This is ridiculous!
    Sounds like they are trying to train pre-nurses early tp out up with crapola.

    If they have a B average, get to the end and you still want to weed them out, something is wrong.
  10. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from Jolie
    I don't mean to split hairs here, but I believe you are partially incorrect.

    In the senior year, it is not passing HESI that allows a candidate to sit for NCLEX, it is graduating from an approved nursing program that qualifies one for NCLEX. I am not aware of ANY state that requires a passing score on any standarized exam (HESI, ATI, etc.) to qualify one for NCLEX. It is a college degree or diploma that qualifies one for NCLEX.
    But, we needed to pass the HESI in order to receive our diploma-that's the point. So yes, it is splitting hairs. Fact is, if I didn't pass HESI, I didn't become an RN.


    How many schools use the ATI for diagnostic purposes only? Because it is all the nationwide scores of the ATI that these students are being compared against.
  11. by   Jolie
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    But, we needed to pass the HESI in order to receive our diploma-that's the point. So yes, it is splitting hairs. Fact is, if I didn't pass HESI, I didn't become an RN.
    I understand what you are saying, and am trying to point out the stupidity of the requirement. So many schools have added this "artificial" requirement, but no matter how much importance they attach to it, passing HESI or ATI does not equal an RN. Satisfactorily completing an approved course of study (which these students have done) and passing NCLEX does. They ought to be given that chance.

    By the university's logic, a failing senior student who passes HESI or ATI ought to be able to sit for NCLEX.
  12. by   Ex130Load
    Jolie,

    Split away on hairs. Each state's nursing board determines prerequisites for NCLEX eligibility. Each school determines how they'll meet the nursing board's mandates. My information came out of a pointed discussion with one of our associate deans. Maybe things have changed, but I'd be surprised. My school uses HESI as a tool for determining academic preparation. If a student doesn't meet the HESI cut-off, his/her name will not be forwarded to the board as having met academic requirements pursuant to NCLEX eligibility. The school uses HESI to gage adequate academic preparation. To sit for NCLEX from my school, an applicant needs the state's and school's blessing. I reiterate, it is quite possible to have a BSN, but not be NCLEX eligible. I most distinctly remember walking the graduation line and still having to take a HESI. Furthermore, though I may be wrong, my understanding is that a graduate from my school likely couldn't successfully apply to another state for NCLEX because my school would likely tell the application nursing board that the concerned student had not met all requirements for a complete nursing program.
  13. by   Jolie
    Quote from Ex130Load
    Jolie,

    Split away on hairs. Each state's nursing board determines prerequisites for NCLEX eligibility. Each school determines how they'll meet the nursing board's mandates. My information came out of a pointed discussion with one of our associate deans. Maybe things have changed, but I'd be surprised. My school uses HESI as a tool for determining academic preparation. If a student doesn't meet the HESI cut-off, his/her name will not be forwarded to the board as having met academic requirements pursuant to NCLEX eligibility. The school uses HESI to gage adequate academic preparation. To sit for NCLEX from my school, an applicant needs the state's and school's blessing. I reiterate, it is quite possible to have a BSN, but not be NCLEX eligible. I most distinctly remember walking the graduation line and still having to take a HESI. Furthermore, though I may be wrong, my understanding is that a graduate from my school likely couldn't successfully apply to another state for NCLEX because my school would likely tell the application nursing board that the concerned student had not met all requirements for a complete nursing program.

    Then why do they grant the degree, knowing it is useless to the candidate? It is my understanding that the schools with this ridiculous requirement are with-holding degrees from students who do not make the required score on the pre-NCLEX assessment tests.

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