N.C. man dies after waiting 22 hours at hospital - page 2

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  1. by   Vito Andolini
    Was this in an ER or on an inpatient ward or what? I wonder what, if any, charting was done. Was an aide assigned to care for him - feed, bathe, etc.? We need details.
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    Can a mod merge these two threads?

    http://allnurses.com/forums/f195/pt-...rs-327188.html


    steph
  3. by   twinmommaRN08
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    In FL, there are homes for MR adults. The 24-hour staff has very little training and makes just over minimum wage. They do not have to be CNAs, and most are not, because CNAs can make better money elsewhere. They care for and also pass meds (2-weeks of training) to the residents. There is a nurse supervisor who is most likely not in-house. The state funds only the bare necessities for these patients.

    Are those enough red flags to tell you why this has happened before and why it will happen again?

    The fact that this particular incident happened in a hospital setting is different only in that the workers should have known better. I really fail to see how this is the hospital's fault. Perhaps the workers should have done their jobs?
    I don't see how the hospital employees negligence can be compared to assisted living facilities/group homes for the MR/DD. Have you ever worked as a direct care counselor for the MR/DD population? I have and I wasn't a CNA, did not make minimum wage, and couldn't see this happening because there was always a manager, shift supervisor, and multiple staff on duty for 10 ladies. Yes, I did pass PO meds after two weeks of extensive training to receive AMAP certification. The class wasn't a just sit hear and listen to me for two weeks--we had daily tests (in which you couldn't get more than 2 out of approx. 25 questions wrong) and a comprehensive test at the end. We had to know the classifications of meds, side/adverse effects, drug interactions, contraindications, etc. We worked under a nurse's license and she came in two or more times every week to triple check the med counts and residents; plus, she was available 24/7.

    Working as a direct care counselor was the most rewarding job I've ever had and is one of the reasons I decided to become a nurse. You pointing out "red flags" in assisted living facilities has nothing to do with the topic of discussion because the incident described occured in a hospital--with fully "qualified" employees.
  4. by   REX3838
    It really happens, lets say you have good nurses and the lazy ones. I am sure, we have encounter these types. Everyone envolve should pay the price.
  5. by   Xbox Live Addict
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    In FL, there are homes for MR adults. The 24-hour staff has very little training and makes just over minimum wage. They do not have to be CNAs, and most are not, because CNAs can make better money elsewhere. They care for and also pass meds (2-weeks of training) to the residents. There is a nurse supervisor who is most likely not in-house. The state funds only the bare necessities for these patients.

    Are those enough red flags to tell you why this has happened before and why it will happen again?

    The fact that this particular incident happened in a hospital setting is different only in that the workers should have known better. I really fail to see how this is the hospital's fault. Perhaps the workers should have done their jobs?
    Yeah... but all the same, it floors me every time I hear about something like this. To me, it would be unthinkable not to check on EACH and EVERY one of the patients under my care during EVERY shift I'm on. To think of someone left to sit in a chair for nearly an entire solar day with no one sparing a thought for them, left to die. The reason why it makes my skin crawl is because I could easily visualize this happening at somewhere I worked! I would not want to be a charge nurse on a unit where a disaster like this took place. I'd sure like to think I could do better, but I don't think most of these people intentionally set out to be neglectful either.

    There's no doubt very high turnover there, and many of the staff are not familiar with the patients, and are handing off to staff who are equally unfamiliar with them.

    Most psychiatric facilities organize staff search parties with law enforcement involvement if patients are AWOL even for a few minutes, and the staff has to sign check sheets every 15 minutes, at a MINIMUM (more often if the patient is on observation precautions).
  6. by   Xbox Live Addict
    Quote from earle58
    i just cannot fathom anyone letting a resident sit for 22 hrs straight.
    it goes beyond comprehension.
    let them all lose their jobs, and even certification/licenses.

    leslie
    I'd think this could potentially qualify for jail time, myself.
  7. by   OldMareLPN
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    They do not have to be CNAs, and most are not, because CNAs can make better money elsewhere. They care for and also pass meds (2-weeks of training) to the residents.
    This is a MAJOR issue. Not only are they NOT CNA's but they are NOT licensed by the BON!

    A CNA can not get a license with a criminal record, but a Resident Aide can pass meds with a criminal background. A drug felon passing oxy's?

    Why does Florida allow this?
  8. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from Xbox Live Addict
    I'd think this could potentially qualify for jail time, myself.
    I can understand how this might happen. Let's say the client was unwilling to eat or drink or use the toilet. He might very well have been checked very frequently, maybe he was on a degree of close observation which would have required that they check the patient at very frequent
    intervals - perhaps q 15 to 30 minutes. Or maybe he was even 1 on 1. Also, cardplaying and TV watching are very frequent events in a Day Room. I'm thinking the client might have been refusing to go to bed or to eat and drink.

    That doesn't mean the nurse was right to not chart her attempts to try to get him hydration and nourishment, toileting, and get him to bed, plus she should have informed the physician of the client's status.

    Heaven help us.
  9. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from OldMareLPN
    This is a MAJOR issue. Not only are they NOT CNA's but they are NOT licensed by the BON!

    A CNA can not get a license with a criminal record, but a Resident Aide can pass meds with a criminal background. A drug felon passing oxy's?

    Why does Florida allow this?
    Too hard to get staff? Money?
  10. by   Roy Fokker
    moderator note:

    threads merged. continue posting.


    Quote from spidey's mom
    can a mod merge these two threads? :d

    http://allnurses.com/forums/f195/pt-...rs-327188.html


    steph
    thanks steph.

    cheers,
    roy
  11. by   Xbox Live Addict
    Quote from OldMareLPN
    This is a MAJOR issue. Not only are they NOT CNA's but they are NOT licensed by the BON!

    A CNA can not get a license with a criminal record, but a Resident Aide can pass meds with a criminal background. A drug felon passing oxy's?

    Why does Florida allow this?
    I don't believe mental health techs are certified by any state agency here, either. CNAs are certified by the Oklahoma Health Department; the BON has no authority over their certification.
  12. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from Xbox Live Addict
    I don't believe mental health techs are certified by any state agency here, either. CNAs are certified by the Oklahoma Health Department; the BON has no authority over their certification.
    Still, there is a state agency that oversees them and that can give them the boot when needed, right?
  13. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Vito Andolini
    I can understand how this might happen. Let's say the client was unwilling to eat or drink or use the toilet. He might very well have been checked very frequently, maybe he was on a degree of close observation which would have required that they check the patient at very frequent
    intervals - perhaps q 15 to 30 minutes. Or maybe he was even 1 on 1. Also, cardplaying and TV watching are very frequent events in a Day Room. I'm thinking the client might have been refusing to go to bed or to eat and drink.

    That doesn't mean the nurse was right to not chart her attempts to try to get him hydration and nourishment, toileting, and get him to bed, plus she should have informed the physician of the client's status.

    Heaven help us.
    vito, that story wouldn't have any credibility.
    obviously he started circling the drain at some point.
    and where was his 1:1 then?
    i seriously doubt this event happened abruptly.

    leslie

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