My degree is not worth the debt! - Page 16

Register Today!
  1. Jul 1, '11 by
    Quote from harris2000
    Although, the nursing profession doesn't appear to possess the PR seen within the teaching domain, we as nuses have the ability to illustrate to society the complexity of our spectrum within healthcare. Nursing has in the past placed the patient/client first (which is good, i'm not saying we should stop), howerever, we must show our significance to society. It is a difficult concept for most people who only content with certain segments of society. For example, nurses service patients/clients from multiple cultures, age zero to death (not including family dymanics) who possess vastly different norms & values from our own that require us to make either split second decisions to save lifes or make life altering choices. What other profession besides physicians contend with situations such as this?
    I love the way you worded that. If only people understood that this is what the bottom line is for nurses everywhere. Split second decisions. Crucial life altering decisions. Yes, that is much of what we do.
    lindarn likes this.
  2. Jul 2, '11 by
    Must be the time of year or the economy but I'm seeing the same type of discussion on the vet and vet tech forums. High student debt for low pay. Most vets come out of school with high student loan debt (>$150,000). Most start in jobs that pay around $50,000. However they have the opportunity to increase their wages by increasing their productivity; buying a practice; specializing; etc. I was astounded to see that many techs leave school with $12,000+ student loan debt. Most start out at around $18,000.

    Many are saying how their private programs sucked them in by telling them about the high pay and job satifaction. Now job satifaction is in the eye of the beholder. I can tell you that there is not much high pay in veterinary medicine when compared to their human medicine counter parts.

    People need to do their research in the cost of the program as it compares to the pay in the profession. Don't believe what your school is telling you. They are in the business to educate people. People need to include other sources in their research. I find that the help wanted boards is a good place to start. A good calculator is wonderful. Take the hourly wage that is offered and multipy it by 2080 to get the yearly income. Ask yourself if those student loans are worth it.

    Fuzzy
    CCRNDiva and RHC81 like this.
  3. Asst. Admin
    Jul 2, '11 by
    We had a real estate bubble that started to burst a few years ago. I'm convinced that we are now in the midst of a student loan bubble that will burst before the end of this decade.

    http://www.qando.net/?p=10821

    You might have read one of the increasingly frequent stories about a student loan bubble. The basics:

    -College is widely believed to be the ticket to success. Degree-holders are more likely to be employed and they make more income than non-holders.
    -Many people tried to take refuge from a lousy job market by going to college, and the recession also pinched state budgets, forcing schools to raise tuition.
    -Consequently, the amount of student loan debt has exploded toward $1 trillion, eclipsing even consumer credit. Since student loan debt is impossible to discharge even in bankruptcy, it was widely considered safe for lenders, and was securitized much in the same fashion as mortgages.
    -As punishing as the rules for paying student loans are, those saddled with the debt have been unable to pay—many fresh graduates aren’t competitive candidates for still-scarce jobs. Only 40% of student loans are being actively repaid. So lenders are starting to pull out.

    Over the longer term, the growth in college costs has far outpaced inflation for decades (“Since 1978, the price of tuition at US colleges has increased over 900 percent, 650 points above inflation”), while the added-income value of those degrees has not grown at nearly the same pace. The oft-quoted statistic that college graduates make $1 million more over a lifetime is misleading (it doesn’t take into account years of foregone income, for one thing), and there’s reason to suspect that much of the real discrepancy is due to correlation: students who have what it takes to pass through the filter of college admissions and stick it out are likely the kind of people who would make more money over their lifetimes anyway.

    But is that enough to call it a bubble?
    tokidoki7, CCRNDiva, Conqueror+, and 1 other like this.
  4. Jul 2, '11 by
    Quote from TheCommuter
    We had a real estate bubble that started to burst a few years ago. I'm convinced that we are now in the midst of a student loan bubble that will burst before the end of this decade.

    http://www.qando.net/?p=10821
    I think we are on the verge of/in the midst of a great many "bubbles" that are going to burst in the not so distant future.

    Housing and banking and air travel and the automobile industry (production and sales)...................check.

    Entertainment sports (NFL and NBA locked out).................currently bursting.

    Student loans..................working on it.

    Public aid.............not to far behind student loans.

    Health Insurance giants..............will fall eventually, will take a lot of work by mult. presidents and political figures.

    Service Industries...............are striving now, but will begin to fade as more and more people give up "luxury" to afford "necessities". High end food service, overpriced large chain establishments, poorly run fast food places, plush gyms, overpriced theaters will close their doors due to lack of business.
    tokidoki7, RHC81, TheCommuter, and 1 other like this.
  5. Jul 2, '11 by
    I don't really see a "bubble". A bubble is a rapid increase to unsustainable levels then decline. By this do you mean increased numbers of student loans? The cost of tuition is such that few can attend college without loans. With college as a prerequisite for many jobs how can there be a decline?

    The cost of college is not going to decline. The need for college is not going to decline. Student loans are low interest, not the same as mortgages or credit cards. They are not really a big profit item in terms of lenders. The government is involved and controls much of the student loan rules and regulations so I doubt they will make them too inaccessible.

    Career school programs such as vet tech, massage therapist, medical assistant, those types of courses may see a decline due to a lot of bad publicity in recent years. They are the ones that need to decline. How many massage therapists does one community need? People borrow to attend those programs thinking that they will actually find work. They are defaulting on loans. Those kind of programs should charge tuition like a community college- affordable. But they do not. They charge too much for a career that is probably useless and certainly low paying. They mislead people.

    Unfortunately people do need to take a realistic look at what they are getting into with student loans. Slick recruiters tell these students what they want to hear. Parents need to be involved and help students make smarter choices such as attending a community college for the first two years to reduce overall debt, and choosing more affordable schools.

    My son was recruited heavily for a technical school program that would have cost $30,000 for two years. I was very torn about it because it is the career he wants. To my relief he decided against it. He can still have the same career with a different pathway to get there. I have seen first hand how these recruiters are so pushy. If it were $10,000 I would have encouraged him, but $30,000 will put him way behind in future earnings. We are looking at a local community college next.
  6. Jul 2, '11 by
    Quote from cxg174
    I don't really see a "bubble". A bubble is a rapid increase to unsustainable levels then decline. By this do you mean increased numbers of student loans? The cost of tuition is such that few can attend college without loans. With college as a prerequisite for many jobs how can there be a decline?

    The cost of college is not going to decline. The need for college is not going to decline. Student loans are low interest, not the same as mortgages or credit cards. They are not really a big profit item in terms of lenders. The government is involved and controls much of the student loan rules and regulations so I doubt they will make them too inaccessible.

    Career school programs such as vet tech, massage therapist, medical assistant, those types of courses may see a decline due to a lot of bad publicity in recent years. They are the ones that need to decline. How many massage therapists does one community need? People borrow to attend those programs thinking that they will actually find work. They are defaulting on loans. Those kind of programs should charge tuition like a community college- affordable. But they do not. They charge too much for a career that is probably useless and certainly low paying. They mislead people.

    Unfortunately people do need to take a realistic look at what they are getting into with student loans. Slick recruiters tell these students what they want to hear. Parents need to be involved and help students make smarter choices such as attending a community college for the first two years to reduce overall debt, and choosing more affordable schools.

    My son was recruited heavily for a technical school program that would have cost $30,000 for two years. I was very torn about it because it is the career he wants. To my relief he decided against it. He can still have the same career with a different pathway to get there. I have seen first hand how these recruiters are so pushy. If it were $10,000 I would have encouraged him, but $30,000 will put him way behind in future earnings. We are looking at a local community college next.
    How? Tuition goes up and up and up....................so the number of people they give it to proportionately goes down down down. Instead of giving "X" amt to thousands to go to school with, they give "X" amt. to hundreds of students........and competition for loans increases. As competition for loans increases, inevitably, there are people who are left out to dry and made to wait. This is a bursted bubble, it is no longer helping as many people as it should.

    OR.......(this is the option I prefer).......instead of giving "X" amt. of aid to thousands of students, "Y" with Y being less aid, is given to thousands of students but it no longer covers everything it did in the past. Perhaps people have no choice but to work and go to school. No more buying a large TV, the biggest/best computer, using school loans for a down payment on a car etc etc.................. This too is a bubble "bursting" because (in the eyes of some), the aid granted no longer has the quality it once had.

    As this thread serves to witness, this is not a bad thing in every case.

    The only other option is to cap tuition. That won't happen formally or directly. That is not the American way. It already is happening indirectly though, and your son is an excellent example of it. With better communication media and word of mouth spreading as fast as you can push "send"..........the overpriced schools are finding less and less willing participants. Lack of business, not law, will kill the schools who charge too much.
    RHC81 and DSkelton711 like this.
  7. Jul 2, '11 by
    Quote from KatieMI
    It is just plain strange for me that so many students can whine for hours about their school raising tuition 7% a year and even go for a day of loud protesting in the state capital (missing a couple of solid classes in the meantime), but grow immencely enthusiastic when offered an "opportunity of a lifetime" to spend 3 months of studying Nursing in New Zealand. <snip> Nursing in New Zealand may be good thing to know about, but it still has nothing to do with the way it is done here in the USA, so this "experience" will be totally useless for the job search purposes.
    Oh I disagree.

    1-It looks good on a resume; employers eat it up.

    2-It gives more varied and "dropped into the deep end of the pool" experience than most can get here. Actually it's better to go to a place that has poor resources, the experience teaches more leadership skills that way.

    Dian
  8. Asst. Admin
    Jul 2, '11 by
    Quote from cxg174
    I don't really see a "bubble". A bubble is a rapid increase to unsustainable levels then decline. By this do you mean increased numbers of student loans? The cost of tuition is such that few can attend college without loans. With college as a prerequisite for many jobs how can there be a decline?
    1. Only 40 percent of people in the U.S. are actively paying back their student loans. This means that the majority (60 percent) are not repaying due to defaulting, deferment, or otherwise. It is unsustainable to keep loaning people money with minimal chance of repayment.

    2. Since 1978, college tuition has increased more than 900 percent, but peoples' incomes have not increased by that same amount. During the housing bubble, real estate values increased by an average of only 50 percent. The 900 percent increase in tuition over a 30 year span is unsustainable.

    3. There's a glut of college degrees that are not being utilized to full potential. This is evidenced by all of the cashiers, servers, hotel clerks, gas station attendants, telemarketers, tree trimmers, and fast food workers who have degrees. The housing bubble resulted in a glut of housing inventory. This student loan bubble is resulting in a glut of degrees.
    Not_A_Hat_Person, tokidoki7, CCRNDiva, and 5 others like this.
  9. Jul 2, '11 by
    Quote from BabyLady
    You won't realize until you get out and start paying it back that making rent, a car payment, insurance, utilities, food is going to be impossible when you have an $800 per month student loan payment to go with it.
    I don't think an $800/month student loan payment is necessarily unreasonable for a $45,000 salary. I'm a second-degree BSN student and spent the past 3 years making $9/hour. When I graduate with my BSN, I will have an $800/month student loan payment (undergrad and BSN combined.) I should easily be able to make my payment as well as enjoy a slight increase in my standard of living. Or, I can continue to live as frugally as possible while making extra payments on my loans.

    Just my situation...YMMV.
  10. Jul 2, '11 by
    Good luck with that...

    If I had to pay $800 a month I would slit my wrists.

    I agree that there is a devaluation of college degrees as more and more people have them. But, I think that it is becoming a societal expectation for even lower paying jobs, resulting from the "information age". This is a time where we are knowledge workers. Every job involves a lot of technology rather than labor. The thing is, how can we meet this need without the use of expensive college educations? I think that high schools and community colleges can help, and they are beginning to. They are rising to the challenge with dual enrollment programs and advanced and alternate coursework. Transfer credits allow students to start out at a community college with up to 24 credits earned while in high school. This is the future. Not by avoiding college, but by finding ways to make it more possible. Society is moving toward college as being the norm rather than the exception.
    tokidoki7 likes this.