Medicare won't pay! - page 3

This is what happens when the government gets involved in health care. Comments?... Read More

  1. by   Medic04
    Quote from ingelein
    I am curious, what is the conservative view on a DNR order? Many conservatives fought very hard to keep Terry Schaivo alive.
    I am a evil conserv. I believe in the "right to life" but I also believe in the RIGHT to die with dignity. I like DNR, if it can keep me from "beating" on a pt who , has nothing left to give this life except, their selfish family doing"everything" possible to keep them here longer. They are not the person getting bedsores, feeding tubes, or showing anysigns of improvement,slowly dying day by day, who family visits, once in a while or convenient at that time or even forgotten ,in the U S we do not let people do that here, I mean we are just now getting HOSPICE accepted. There are stil people out there saying HOSPICE kills their family and people. No they die with dignity and as pain free as we can get them. So I am all for DNR. I have had to do ACLS on many pts over the years, and Lord knows, it is not my choice or decision, there are many I wished I did not have to. But we do anyway"everything" possible for everyone, but no one watches the suffering of those we do get to "bring back to life" say, 2.3.4 times and then oh yes, place that PEG. Unresponsive, no problem, we still want everything done.........

    T.S. "was" showing signs of improvement. We had a woman here who had a massive brain injury. SHE was showing signs of improvement and the news here showed her plight, the love of her family and husband at her bedside. UNLIKE TS's. When our person passed away after being married for under a year, and most of the time recovering then passing, there was a huge showing for support in her death, but like many she most likely ended up with pneumonia, not her husband starving her to death. I do not care what they say, it is a painful way to die when you do that. I have to wonder if Medicare/Medicade paid for TS too, since her "husband " used all HER money.
  2. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from Medic04
    I am a evil conserv. I believe in the "right to life" but I also believe in the RIGHT to die with dignity. I like DNR, if it can keep me from "beating" on a pt who , has nothing left to give this life except, their selfish family doing"everything" possible to keep them here longer. They are not the person getting bedsores, feeding tubes, or showing anysigns of improvement,slowly dying day by day, who family visits, once in a while or convenient at that time or even forgotten ,in the U S we do not let people do that here, I mean we are just now getting HOSPICE accepted. There are stil people out there saying HOSPICE kills their family and people. No they die with dignity and as pain free as we can get them. So I am all for DNR. I have had to do ACLS on many pts over the years, and Lord knows, it is not my choice or decision, there are many I wished I did not have to. But we do anyway"everything" possible for everyone, but no one watches the suffering of those we do get to "bring back to life" say, 2.3.4 times and then oh yes, place that PEG. Unresponsive, no problem, we still want everything done.........

    T.S. "was" showing signs of improvement. We had a woman here who had a massive brain injury. SHE was showing signs of improvement and the news here showed her plight, the love of her family and husband at her bedside. UNLIKE TS's. When our person passed away after being married for under a year, and most of the time recovering then passing, there was a huge showing for support in her death, but like many she most likely ended up with pneumonia, not her husband starving her to death. I do not care what they say, it is a painful way to die when you do that. I have to wonder if Medicare/Medicade paid for TS too, since her "husband " used all HER money.
    No in this case you are not an evil conservative. I completely agree with your stance.You just don't seem to agree with some of your conservative buddies.
  3. by   Medic04
    Quote from ingelein
    No in this case you are not an evil conservative. I completely agree with your stance.You just don't seem to agree with some of your conservative buddies.

    ODD May conservs believe in Right to life here and at the same time accept DNR for those also
  4. by   BBFRN
    Quote from x_coastie
    But I keep hearing that socialized health care will be "free" and unlimited for everybody because the government has unlimited funds. Is this not so?




    //sarcasm
    Really? And who are you hearing this from? I don't know anyone who thinks UHC will be free or unlimited.
  5. by   pickledpepperRN
    I also am right to life.
    I have persuaded women to have their baby and take care of themselves so the baby can be healthy. This after they considered abortion.

    I also believe in allowing God to take a soul home (or let nature take it's course).
    DNR can save so much suffering.
    As a nurse I have been allowed to change my assignment so I didn't have to care for an alert patient who wanted to starve while on a morphine drip. The patient was quite disabled and could no longer swallow, but could talk.

    Withholding food (tube feedings) was not something I could do.
    The choice to refuse a G-tube or NG feeds was OK with the MD.
    Another nurse was assigned.

    The patient was not near death. I didn't try to stop the decision, just did not participate.
    I would do ythe same regarding abortion.

    Anyway - back to the topic. Medicare routinely pays less than the hospital charges. In this case they were negotiating on our behalf of us. Medicare offered "only" $16,000 for one dose of the medication.
    I think it is important to determine how much this medication costs in other countries. A post stated the cost to the corporations home country, the UK, is not available. The NHS does provide these medications to patients.

    I do NOT think anyone should be denied a life saving medication. Since Medicare is public WE can contact OUR elected representatives to find the facts and, if needed, pass a law so it will be available to ALL WHO NEED IT. Not ONLY Medicare patients.
  6. by   Medic04
    Quote from Baptized_By_Fire
    Really? And who are you hearing this from? I don't know anyone who thinks UHC will be free or unlimited.
    Actually alot of RNs I know plus pts seem to think it will be "free" since it is govt sponcered and they are quite ignorant in that fact. These are upper and lower class, poor and well to do folks.

    I mean as I stated before the FEDS can't get Medicare and Medicade right now, I do not want them making my health care choices, letting any person claim to be pushed through med school, so we have "enough Docs" instead, do we really want to wait in line to be treated, and WHY THE HELL is it to be EXPECTED everyone gets freaking coverage? I have been with and without it over the years, paid Medical Bills and gotten lucky at other times. I have it now and pay out of pocket for my perscriptions, the co pays suck, but here we were formed on the CAPITALIST notion! Do I grumble at times, yes...But You know My parents went without ALOT of nice things when us kids were growing up to be able to afford FOOD, our home, and healthcare, and you know what maybe folks these days should too. My father was laid off MANY times, we never had "Food Stamps", my mom was not healthy to work, we learned what it was like to do without. I mean every POOR household I go to had at the LEAST 1 tv, running water, heat, Electricity and the basics, plus some sort of assistance WIC,Medicare/Medicade, Food Stamps , ect. I never had that growing up and as stated my father was right, if you want something bad enough you'll work for it or do without.

    Are the Drug companies greedy? Maybe. But that is how new Drugs are found. We all know they sell to Europe and Canada for less, but look at the size of THEIR population compared to the US, and more people legal and VASTLY illegal are still coming and Sucking our present system dry. I mean hell you can come from another country, get your citizenship apply for Medicare and they go back to your country and they SEND you a CHECK. I know of a neighbor who did that with her "inlaws".

    So I am all for Medicare to set a limit on what to pay. 90% of the time the hospitals agree, take the fee and give treatment. Have you seen bills where Hospitals just wrote off that $25,000 to a company but hey if it was the general public, you go right a head and pay that $25,000, and take out a loan or two to do it?

    The wishing well of healthcare WILL run dry, and that is where people are ignorant, there will be more mistakes and delayed treatments.

    People are upset now at their taxes got up twice what they were to pay for freaking social programs now, me along with it. Fix my dang road, do what you have to do and go to work. stop living off my taxes! I am tired of supportng every freaking person.

    So if Medicare refuses to pay for certain things, that is their right. As I said before, the same thing happens in other countries without "buying" better insurance, and people in the U S are not told that enough.

    ( I mean how many of you know the price of a ambulance taxi ride? We do not get payment many times, but folks still use and abuse it all the time, and they refuse to pay when we send them the bill. But hey it is easier to call, get a cab-u-lance then go to the clinic, and not pay for the tx rendered by EMS either, just swipe that magic red card and hope the charges get paid. //vent):angryfire
  7. by   scattycarrot
    It would seem that the majorty on here have a totally warped view of 'socialist' medicine, which is understandable and not surprizing when all you hear on the media is how terrible a universal health system is. I am orginally from the UK and woud much rather have the National Health System(NHS) that we have in the uk then the so called system that you have in place over here. Even with all its faults! I have no qualms about paying higher taxes and if you were to speak to the majority to the UK public, they have no problem with it either and wouldn't want to move towards the US model of healthcare.And, I think the same would apply to the rest of Europe.
    Some posters have commented that we wait years in agony for joint replacements and frequently get denied medication because of the cost. Well, the former just isn't true anymore. Granted, there are waiting lists but most get their op within 18 weeks (I believe, someone else may have the true figure) and as for the medication, that also used to be true but not so much these days and is no different than an insurance company refusing to cover certain meds. And, once in a hospital enviroment, cost is not even an issue. Generally, if you need a particular treatment or intervention, you get it. Now, obviously, there are exceptions to this but thats true of any health care system. The emergency care in the UK is excellent and treatment is base on clinical need and not what insurance you have or haven't got.I have looked after many American tourists in London, who are amazed that the treatment was free(emergency care is free to all) and efficient (most of the time!). A few years ago the goverment bought in targets for the ER and now all patients must be seen, treated and discharged or admitted with 4 hours and this happens 98% off the time, or hospitals face penelties. It is reassuring also to know that even if you lose your job, or get sick, or are involved a major crash, or your kid gets leukemia that you will get the treatment you or your loved one needs without you having to co-pay or re-mortage your house or whatever. It also means that there is no part of society that isn't covered and healthcare is available to all.
    The NHS is by no means perfect and is going through hard times right now. It needs to make some changes in the way it operates as the cost of healthcare skyrockets and the population grows but taken all its faults into account, I still prefer the universal health care system.
    No matter where you are in the world, you hear horror stories abut the healthcare system. For example, here in the US, I am frequently, hearing stories about how insurance companies won't cover this intervention or that medication and how people face massive insurance bills! And, what happens when you have a pre-exisiting condition? A relative of mine is bipolar and just out of school and is finding it very difficult to find an insurance company that will cover him. So, at present, luckily for him he has moved back in with his parents but what if he didn't have this support? He would be off his meds and become ill again. This would not happen in the UK. So, yes, when the system works well over here it works very well but it doesn't work for everyone, all of the time and alot of people fall through the cracks.
    I have no suggestions as to what would be a perfect health service but the evil socialist picture that alot of people are painting on here, just isn't the reality!
  8. by   Medic04
    Quote from scattycarrot
    It would seem that the majorty on here have a totally warped view of 'socialist' medicine, which is understandable and not surprizing when all you hear on the media is how terrible a universal health system is. I am orginally from the UK and woud much rather have the National Health System(NHS) that we have in the uk then the so called system that you have in place over here. Even with all its faults! I have no qualms about paying higher taxes and if you were to speak to the majority to the UK public, they have no problem with it either and wouldn't want to move towards the US model of healthcare.And, I think the same would apply to the rest of Europe.
    Some posters have commented that we wait years in agony for joint replacements and frequently get denied medication because of the cost. Well, the former just isn't true anymore. Granted, there are waiting lists but most get their op within 18 weeks (I believe, someone else may have the true figure) and as for the medication, that also used to be true but not so much these days and is no different than an insurance company refusing to cover certain meds. And, once in a hospital enviroment, cost is not even an issue. Generally, if you need a particular treatment or intervention, you get it. Now, obviously, there are exceptions to this but thats true of any health care system. The emergency care in the UK is excellent and treatment is base on clinical need and not what insurance you have or haven't got.I have looked after many American tourists in London, who are amazed that the treatment was free(emergency care is free to all) and efficient (most of the time!). A few years ago the goverment bought in targets for the ER and now all patients must be seen, treated and discharged or admitted with 4 hours and this happens 98% off the time, or hospitals face penelties. It is reassuring also to know that even if you lose your job, or get sick, or are involved a major crash, or your kid gets leukemia that you will get the treatment you or your loved one needs without you having to co-pay or re-mortage your house or whatever. It also means that there is no part of society that isn't covered and healthcare is available to all.
    The NHS is by no means perfect and is going through hard times right now. It needs to make some changes in the way it operates as the cost of healthcare skyrockets and the population grows but taken all its faults into account, I still prefer the universal health care system.
    No matter where you are in the world, you hear horror stories abut the healthcare system. For example, here in the US, I am frequently, hearing stories about how insurance companies won't cover this intervention or that medication and how people face massive insurance bills! And, what happens when you have a pre-exisiting condition? A relative of mine is bipolar and just out of school and is finding it very difficult to find an insurance company that will cover him. So, at present, luckily for him he has moved back in with his parents but what if he didn't have this support? He would be off his meds and become ill again. This would not happen in the UK. So, yes, when the system works well over here it works very well but it doesn't work for everyone, all of the time and alot of people fall through the cracks.
    I have no suggestions as to what would be a perfect health service but the evil socialist picture that alot of people are painting on here, just isn't the reality!
    That is fine and good.
    Maybe we should start exporting our folks to your and other countries health systems and have your(other systems) systems pay for the pt, procedures and then see how it will affect your coverage, cost and number in line. IF and I say IF it is 18 weeks at best, it might be longer. We'll see how well you like it then.:angryfire
  9. by   scattycarrot
    Quote from Medic04
    That is fine and good.
    Maybe we should start exporting our folks to your and other countries health systems and have your(other systems) systems pay for the pt, procedures and then see how it will affect your coverage, cost and number in line. IF and I say IF it is 18 weeks at best, it might be longer. We'll see how well you like it then.:angryfire
    I am not entirely sure what you mean but...don't you think that this happens already? The US isn't the only country with immigration or wealthfare issues and this is the one of the factors causing pressure on the NHS and causing the cost of healthcare in the UK to go up, which in turn affects our taxes. The tax payers in the UK are also paying for those who either can't or chose not to contribute to society. We still pay for healthcare, its just free at the point of service.
  10. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from Medic04
    That is fine and good.
    Maybe we should start exporting our folks to your and other countries health systems and have your(other systems) systems pay for the pt, procedures and then see how it will affect your coverage, cost and number in line. IF and I say IF it is 18 weeks at best, it might be longer. We'll see how well you like it then.:angryfire
    I don't think that this was a productive comment.
  11. by   Jo Dirt
    Health insurance benefits are getting worse, regardless of whether the government is involved or not.
  12. by   azhiker96
    I think we need to build incentives into the system to help motivate people. Either charge people for poor health decisions such as smoking or give rebates/bonuses to people who make positive health choices such as regular exercise, healthy BMI, non-smoking, etc.
    I see it every week. A patient whose history/progression was overweight, DM, PVD, renal failure. Then they want a pill or outpatient treatment so they can continue their life. The costs for treating chronic illness are huge no matter who pays the bill. Somehow we need more people to make healthy choices and they need to start making those choices early, before they've damaged their bodies beyond repair.
  13. by   scattycarrot
    Quote from azhiker96
    I think we need to build incentives into the system to help motivate people. Either charge people for poor health decisions such as smoking or give rebates/bonuses to people who make positive health choices such as regular exercise, healthy BMI, non-smoking, etc.
    I see it every week. A patient whose history/progression was overweight, DM, PVD, renal failure. Then they want a pill or outpatient treatment so they can continue their life. The costs for treating chronic illness are huge no matter who pays the bill. Somehow we need more people to make healthy choices and they need to start making those choices early, before they've damaged their bodies beyond repair.
    Your right and thats another difference between the NHS and heathcare in the US. The NHS has finally recognised the importance of prevention and thats the a major aim of the NHS these days.This is mostly because the powers that be have recognised that it is cheaper to keep people out of hospital and free from ill health, than it is to treat them 10 years down the line when they have developed a mulitude of ills. I have noticed over here that healthcare is reactive and not preventative. How much is this to do with the insurance companies refusing to cover preventitive medicine though, eg..smoking cesstation classes or fund weight loss programs? And why should they? For the large co-operate hospitals, pharamecautical companies and insurance companies, it doesn't benefit them to keep people well or out of hospital or not using drugs. Whereas with a universal system, it does
    benefit the system. A synical view maybe but it always comes down to money.

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