Massachusetts Health Plan in Trouble. - page 4

And some have said that this is a model for the nation.... Read More

  1. by   Simplepleasures
    Yes America is generous and does do the right thing for many around the world, now lets get America to put Americans first, with its generousity and fair mindedness.I do not mean handouts to lazy grasshoppers either. Lets give the middle and lower classes the same break that this administration has given to the corporate elite.How about the Trillions that have been spent in Iraq, couldnt we have used that for American interests? Any more interest rate bailouts anyone? Any idea, even democracy can be turned into something ugly by those with little humanity and a lot of power.
  2. by   banditrn
    Quote from ingelein
    Yes America is generous and does do the right thing for many around the world, now lets get America to put Americans first, with its generousity and fair mindedness.I do not mean handouts to lazy grasshoppers either. Lets give the middle and lower classes the same break that this administration has given to the corporate elite.How about the Trillions that have been spent in Iraq, couldnt we have used that for American interests? Any more interest rate bailouts anyone? Any idea, even democracy can be turned into something ugly by those with little humanity and a lot of power.
    Ingelein - how much 'humanity' will you see in a system that forces everyone to partake of the same system? What makes you think that a government sponsored system won't be rife with mistakes, greed, or corruption?

    I have to agree about the money that is spent on Iraq, bailouts, etc. So why would you want them involved in making decisions regarding your health?
  3. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from banditrn
    Ingelein - how much 'humanity' will you see in a system that forces everyone to partake of the same system? What makes you think that a government sponsored system won't be rife with mistakes, greed, or corruption?

    I have to agree about the money that is spent on Iraq, bailouts, etc. So why would you want them involved in making decisions regarding your health?
    I think that a good system would start with choice, you can opt out of UHC and choose to buy your own private insurnce.I dont like the idea of mandating health insurance plans either.I dont have any faith in THIS current government, I do think that 2008 can bring about MANY great changes for the better, IF we are careful whom we choose as leaders.
  4. by   HM2VikingRN
    The data shows that a publicly financed single payer plan will deliver health care at lower costs. See:
    http://www.cbpp.org/images/health-btn.jpg


    We have real access problems vis a vis other countries that have single payer:


    Patients with high deductible plans are more likely to delay care:



    The implication of this graph is that adults with chronic conditions are more likely to delay care:



    More likely to receive inadequate care:






    The point is that we need to get everyone into the system. Part of the discussion that needs to occur is to design an apples to apples health care plan that meets the needs of all Americans. High deductible plans while "cheaper" on the surface are more expensive in the long run because of the long term likelihood of worsened health status.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 2, '07
  5. by   Jolie
    Quote from HM2Viking
    The point is that we need to get everyone into the system. Part of the discussion that needs to occur is to design an apples to apples health care plan that meets the needs of all Americans. High deductible plans while "cheaper" on the surface are more expensive in the long run because of the long term likelihood of worsened health status.
    There is no such thing as a single plan that meets everyone's needs. Unless we have choice coupled with personal financial responsibility, there will be no workable plan.
  6. by   HM2VikingRN


    There can be core organizing principles that will meet the needs of 99% plus of Americans:

    1. Primary prevention oriented
    2. All patients have a medical home with true provider choice.
    3. All patients are in the system.
    4. Treatments and medications for chronic illnesses (DM, HTN etc) have first dollar coverage for care.
    5. Prescription medication reimbursements are evidence based.
    6. All employers are paying into the system for health care either through provision of health care benefits, or "buying into" the FEHP or the state equivalents of dirigo care, MN Care or Badger Care.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 2, '07
  7. by   CRNA2007
    Americans have been put first for a long time remeber the trillions wasted in the war on poverty. The interest rate bilouts once again are for the poor who obviously are to oblivious to know what they are getting into no matter how many disclosures they sign before taking the loans.



    Quote from ingelein
    Yes America is generous and does do the right thing for many around the world, now lets get America to put Americans first, with its generousity and fair mindedness.I do not mean handouts to lazy grasshoppers either. Lets give the middle and lower classes the same break that this administration has given to the corporate elite.How about the Trillions that have been spent in Iraq, couldnt we have used that for American interests? Any more interest rate bailouts anyone? Any idea, even democracy can be turned into something ugly by those with little humanity and a lot of power.
  8. by   pickledpepperRN
    I am very glad we have a single payer fire department with paramedic services in my city.
  9. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from CRNA2007
    Americans have been put first for a long time remeber the trillions wasted in the war on poverty. The interest rate bilouts once again are for the poor who obviously are to oblivious to know what they are getting into no matter how many disclosures they sign before taking the loans.
    Oh there you go again blaming the poor. The interest rate bailouts have occured because of PREDATORY lending.War on poverty a waste? What about war on Iraq a waste, money, lives, etc.
    Last edit by Simplepleasures on Dec 2, '07
  10. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from spacenurse
    I am very glad we have a single payer fire department with paramedic services in my city.
    As am I.....
  11. by   HM2VikingRN
    The focus on moral hazard suggests that the changes we make in our behavior when we have insurance are nearly always wasteful. Yet, when it comes to health care, many of the things we do only because we have insurance—like getting our moles checked, or getting our teeth cleaned regularly, or getting a mammogram or engaging in other routine preventive care—are anything but wasteful and inefficient. In fact, they are behaviors that could end up saving the health-care system a good deal of money.
    Source: http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_08_29_a_hazard.html

    In other words paying for preventive care saves money in the long run.

    Really the question that we ought to be asking is what kind of health care system demand should be encouraged? The short answer is prevention focused.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 2, '07
  12. by   Jolie
    Quote from HM2Viking
    Yet, when it comes to health care, many of the things we do only because we have insurance—like getting our moles checked, or getting our teeth cleaned regularly, or getting a mammogram or engaging in other routine preventive care—are anything but wasteful and inefficient.
    Please cite a source that indicates that only people with insurance get moles checked, have mammograms, or get their teeth cleaned.

    You can't. Because no such source exists.

    I have lived the majority of my life without health insurance, and never lacked for preventive care. My parents made it a priority and worked out arrangements with our family doctor and dentist to obtain and pay for preventive services as part of their household budget. A tact many other responsible people take, I'm sure.

    I don't argue that preventive care is important and worthy of inclusion in health plans. But you lose credibility when you overstate and overdramatize your case by making ridiculous, broad, and sweeping statements like, "many of the things we do only because we have health insurance-like getting our moles checked, or getting our teeth cleaned regularly, or getting a mammogram....
  13. by   banditrn
    Quote from Jolie
    Please cite a source that indicates that only people with insurance get moles checked, have mammograms, or get their teeth cleaned.

    You can't. Because no such source exists.

    I have lived the majority of my life without health insurance, and never lacked for preventive care. My parents made it a priority and worked out arrangements with our family doctor and dentist to obtain and pay for preventive services as part of their household budget. A tact many other responsible people take, I'm sure.

    I don't argue that preventive care is important and worthy of inclusion in health plans. But you lose credibility when you overstate and overdramatize your case by making ridiculous, broad, and sweeping statements like, "many of the things we do only because we have health insurance-like getting our moles checked, or getting our teeth cleaned regularly, or getting a mammogram....
    Jolie - dental insurance is actually a fairly recent innovation - I don't have it, but I manage to get my dental needs met.

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