LPNs Fight Efforts To Phase Them Out - page 9

by DoGoodThenGo

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Licensed Practical Nurses at one hospital are fighting efforts to have them phased out of direct patient care. The hospital intends to go with a different care model calling for expanded use of RNs and UAP staff to replace the... Read More


  1. 0
    I can't say what should or should not happen, but at my local hospital, which is the main one for about a 40 mile radius, is still hiring LPNs. I don't know what they do, but the still have LPNs listed on their job board.
  2. 0
    Quote from tferdaise
    My comment about "it doesn't matter what education the LPN gets" was in reference to their clinical rotation, whether they are done in the Acute Care setting or SNF.
    I don't see the connection? Can you elaborate a little further?
  3. 1
    OK, lets see if I can break it down.

    Someone commented that when they did their LPN all of their clinical's were at a Acute Care hospital so it shouldn't matter if they work at one or not. Another poster states they did some clinical s at a SNF as well as Acute Care Hospital.

    But it comes down to the State Board in the scope of practice for the LPN and how the Acute Care Hospitals use them. There have been many studies to show both sides of this debate having LPN's in Acute Care Hospitals. Now if LPNs want to fight to stay in hospitals, then they need to show evidence that they are worth keeping. Nursing is becoming Evidence Based. Show the powers to be that there is Evidence to support that LPNs are a vital role in healthcare today.


    Quote from patient1977
    I can't say what should or should not happen, but at my local hospital, which is the main one for about a 40 mile radius, is still hiring LPNs. I don't know what they do, but the still have LPNs listed on their job board.
    GM2RN likes this.
  4. 0
    As a former LPN now a BSN who is working on my MSN. I have worked with LPN's and RN's- sometimes I would rather work with some LPNs as they know more than the RNs that have been hired. The small town hospital that I work in still hires LPNs, however, several of our LPNs are in RN school and hopefully will stay after they complete their education.
  5. 0
    Like you, I'm on the same route and yes, I have wondered how some of these RNs pass their boards. But again it comes down to the State Board... So what you getting your MSN in? Mine is in leadership


    Quote from frenchfroggyRN
    As a former LPN now a BSN who is working on my MSN. I have worked with LPN's and RN's- sometimes I would rather work with some LPNs as they know more than the RNs that have been hired. The small town hospital that I work in still hires LPNs, however, several of our LPNs are in RN school and hopefully will stay after they complete their education.
  6. 1
    Quote from Ginger's Mom
    Many LPN programs can't get placements in hospitals for clinical, they graduate without working in a hospital. LPN are not taught the nursing assessment as extensively as RN. LPN can not learn the theory in half the time of a RN.

    LPN are not taught delegation like a RN program. Pharmcology is scaled down.

    Does this diminish the an individual experiences a LPN may have, no but the system we have in based on nursing education not experience. I know my assessment skills are superior to a new MD, but does this make me a MD since I can assess, diagnosis, and provide the proper orders for a patient, of course. Not.

    If LPN via experience can work at the RN level, smart RN should be able to practice on the MD level.
    I personally don't know of any LPN programs that don't go to to hospitals for clinical. At my CC LPN students and RN students are in the same Theory classes and clinical settings for the first year. Our LPN program is the first year of RN school in addition to another 8 week theory course that goes over everything learned in the second year of nursing school. The only difference is that we did not go to clinicals for peds psych but still had theory classes/exams on those specialites . From my experience as a LPN and current RN student at the same school...RNs and LPN learn the same major concepts in nursing and same disease process. LPNs are taught just like RNs to use the nursing process and critical thinking to take care of patients. We are taught to thoroughly assess and to delagation. In LPN school I had to write a whole paper on delagation and we had to practice that in clinicals at the hospitals. The major difference I have picked up at my CC between LPN school and RN school is that the second year goes more in depth so far as knowledge based concepts of certain diseases. Other than that I received about the same information as a LPN student that I'm receiving now as a RN student. The second year of nursing is actually like a review for me. I'm glad that I'm now able to compare LPN and RN program.

    On another note I can understand why LPNs are not used in hospital settings due to not being allowed to give IV push and things of that sort. For this particular case I just wish the LPNs were not being let go but instead given a chance to received RN training and remain at the hospital.
    Franemtnurse likes this.
  7. 1
    Quote from tferdaise
    OK, lets see if I can break it down.

    Someone commented that when they did their LPN all of their clinical's were at a Acute Care hospital so it shouldn't matter if they work at one or not. Another poster states they did some clinical s at a SNF as well as Acute Care Hospital.
    If you are referring to my posts, I never said anything remotely like "it shouldn't matter if they work at one or not".
    But it comes down to the State Board in the scope of practice for the LPN and how the Acute Care Hospitals use them. There have been many studies to show both sides of this debate having LPN's in Acute Care Hospitals.
    What studies? Specifically. You aren't going to find anything in LPN/LVN scopes of practice that would preclude hiring at acute care hospitals. The bulk of state scopes of practice were written when it was commonplace to hire LPNs and LVNs in acute care hospitals. A hospital can hire whoever they want to and then decide they will restrict them as a matter of hospital policy, not law, decide they aren't worth all the hassle and fire them.

    I have no argument with that other than in this case, in this PA hospital they apparently sprung it on them at the last minute and their union was asleep at the switch.
    Now if LPNs want to fight to stay in hospitals, then they need to show evidence that they are worth keeping. Nursing is becoming Evidence Based. Show the powers to be that there is Evidence to support that LPNs are a vital role in healthcare today.
    How are they supposed to do that, exactly - when there is nothing concrete saying they are a danger to anyone in the acute care hospital? Why would LPNs be subject to "guilty until proven innocent" any more than any other group there? Sorry but your conception of what Evidence based practice is-- is Wrong. Yes I am getting angry with this because to make a faulty argument and admonish us about Evidence based Practice well. .it pretty much negates your whole post.

    I need a Tum right now.
    Last edit by nursel56 on Apr 28, '11
    HazelLPN likes this.
  8. 0
    Quote from frenchfroggyRN
    As a former LPN now a BSN who is working on my MSN. I have worked with LPN's and RN's- sometimes I would rather work with some LPNs as they know more than the RNs that have been hired. The small town hospital that I work in still hires LPNs, however, several of our LPNs are in RN school and hopefully will stay after they complete their education.

    That's a VERY broad statement that does not compare education or experience. A fair comparison would be a new grad LPN with a new grad RN, assuming neither had any prior healthcare experience. In that case, I have to disagree with your statement.
  9. 0
    One thing people need to remember is this forum is nationwide just because in your city they go to Acute Care Hospitals don't mean other programs don't.


    Quote from NurseLoveJoy88
    I personally don't know of any LPN programs that don't go to to hospitals for clinical. At my CC LPN students and RN students are in the same Theory classes and clinical settings for the first year. Our LPN program is the first year of RN school in addition to another 8 week theory course that goes over everything learned in the second year of nursing school. The only difference is that we did not go to clinicals for peds psych but still had theory classes/exams on those specialites . From my experience as a LPN and current RN student at the same school...RNs and LPN learn the same major concepts in nursing and same disease process. LPNs are taught just like RNs to use the nursing process and critical thinking to take care of patients. We are taught to thoroughly assess and to delagation. In LPN school I had to write a whole paper on delagation and we had to practice that in clinicals at the hospitals. The major difference I have picked up at my CC between LPN school and RN school is that the second year goes more in depth so far as knowledge based concepts of certain diseases. Other than that I received about the same information as a LPN student that I'm receiving now as a RN student. The second year of nursing is actually like a review for me. I'm glad that I'm now able to compare LPN and RN program.

    On another note I can understand why LPNs are not used in hospital settings due to not being allowed to give IV push and things of that sort. For this particular case I just wish the LPNs were not being let go but instead given a chance to received RN training and remain at the hospital.
  10. 0
    There are studies that have proven having LPNs in acute care hospital have a positive role in healthcare. I had 3 of them saved on my old lap (until my HD died) I was working on a paper for my BSN on that subject. BTW, the LPN association would have copies of these studies.

    Regarding state boards, they routinely update the scope of practices. AZ board did that regarding LPNs, which basically sealed the death of LPNs in acute care hospitals. The State Board states that LPN are not allowed to note orders in Acute Care Hospitals, they can though so it in SNFs. So your comment regarding State Boards invalid.


    Quote from nursel56
    If you are referring to my posts, I never said anything remotely like "it shouldn't matter if they work at one or not".


    What studies? Specifically. You aren't going to find anything in LPN/LVN scopes of practice that would preclude hiring at acute care hospitals. The bulk of state scopes of practice were written when it was commonplace to hire LPNs and LVNs in acute care hospitals. A hospital can hire whoever they want to and then decide they will restrict them as a matter of hospital policy, not law, decide they aren't worth all the hassle and fire them.

    I have no argument with that other than in this case, in this PA hospital they apparently sprung it on them at the last minute and their union was asleep at the switch.


    How are they supposed to do that, exactly - when there is nothing concrete saying they are a danger to anyone in the acute care hospital? Why would LPNs be subject to "guilty until proven innocent" any more than any other group there? Sorry but your conception of what Evidence based practice is-- is Wrong. Yes I am getting angry with this because to make a faulty argument and admonish us about Evidence based Practice well. .it pretty much negates your whole post.

    I need a Tum right now.


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