LPNs Fight Efforts To Phase Them Out - page 14

by DoGoodThenGo 24,173 Views | 139 Comments

Licensed Practical Nurses at one hospital are fighting efforts to have them phased out of direct patient care. The hospital intends to go with a different care model calling for expanded use of RNs and UAP staff to replace the... Read More


  1. 2
    I disagree with your idea of the LPN. When the role of the LPN was started it was its own separated degree. However things changed over the years, there are "tech" schools that only have the LPN/LVN schooling, and there are community colleges that allow the ADN student to sit for the LPN boards between the 1st and 2 nd year. I would have to think there are more Community Colleges out there that allow the ADN student to take the LPN boards then there are "tech" schools.

    Healthcare has changed over the last 20 years, and the role of the bedside LPN does not fit in the acute care hospital. There are too many studies that shows this. I was an LPN for 6 years, I was grateful for the experiences I got while working at the Acute Care hospitals. However times have changed and so does nursing.

    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    Just so you know Licensed Practical Nursing is it's own distinct area of nursing with it's own scope of practice. It is *not* a shortened "RN" scheme though at some point most all states permitted ADN and BSN students to take the pratical nurse boards after only several semesters.

    At the time LPN/LVN schools were founded the standard education for RN's in the United States was the traditional three year hospital program. The former continued with their (usually) one year program even after ADN/AAS (two year) degrees were founded and many diploma programs were shortened as well.

    Furhtermore as for the "only one more year of education...." the same can be said of ADN/AAS nurses who did not or will not go for their BSN; afterall it is only two more years........

    There are many areas of healthcare today for which LPNs/LVNs are well suited, problem is bean counters would rather pay for a souped up CNA or tech than a licensed nurse.
    kalevra and lindarn like this.
  2. 0
    Quote from tferdaise
    I disagree with your idea of the LPN. When the role of the LPN was started it was its own separated degree. However things changed over the years, there are "tech" schools that only have the LPN/LVN schooling, and there are community colleges that allow the ADN student to sit for the LPN boards between the 1st and 2 nd year. I would have to think there are more Community Colleges out there that allow the ADN student to take the LPN boards then there are "tech" schools.

    Healthcare has changed over the last 20 years, and the role of the bedside LPN does not fit in the acute care hospital. There are too many studies that shows this. I was an LPN for 6 years, I was grateful for the experiences I got while working at the Acute Care hospitals. However times have changed and so does nursing.
    It is not the school that permits RN students to sit for the LPN boards but the state BON. Here in NYS at least the practice of allowing ADN/Diploma students to take the boards has long been over. However there is one school upstate that has both LPN and RN programs and somehow it's RN students apparently meet the state's criteria to allow them to sit for the LPN boards.

    Also my post said "areas of healthcare" not just bedside acute care where LPNs could be of use.
  3. 1
    Your statement is not correct, here in AZ, the school determines is the student will sit for the LPN boards if they are a RN program. Maricopa Community Colleges will not allow their RN students to sit for the LPN boards. The state board of nursing all sets the criteria for sitting for the board, the schools control who does sit.

    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    It is not the school that permits RN students to sit for the LPN boards but the state BON. Here in NYS at least the practice of allowing ADN/Diploma students to take the boards has long been over. However there is one school upstate that has both LPN and RN programs and somehow it's RN students apparently meet the state's criteria to allow them to sit for the LPN boards.

    Also my post said "areas of healthcare" not just bedside acute care where LPNs could be of use.
    kalevra likes this.
  4. 0
    Quote from nursel56
    Where do you see that anyone in this article refused to "advanced" their education? Badass? What a shame that someone with an attitude like that is planning to join our ranks. You certainly are judgemental for someone who isn't any kind of nurse yet. Whatever the merits of the issues themsellves, there is no place kfor disrespectful dialogue like that, and disappointing that anyone would "kudo" that.
    I rather be judgmental than a *****, which you seem to have covered dear. It is funny you call me judgmental but in the same breathe turn around and stick your nose up and have thenerve to tell someone that they are not good enough to join your lovely ranks. Pot...meet kettle. Pretty childish and stuck up.

    They can go on and get their RN or leave but it seems that they would rather complain then adVance themselves. They only have themselves to blame.
  5. 1
    Quote from ThePrincessBride
    I rather be judgmental than a *****, which you seem to have covered dear. It is funny you call me judgmental but in the same breathe turn around and stick your nose up and have thenerve to tell someone that they are not good enough to join your lovely ranks. Pot...meet kettle. Pretty childish and stuck up.

    They can go on and get their RN or leave but it seems that they would rather complain then adVance themselves. They only have themselves to blame.
    So are you saying your post was meant to be constructive? You should ask the administrators to review all your posts and maybe they'll appoint you as an allnurses guide! Why wait?

    Also I never said you weren't good enough to be a nurse. I would just prefer that people with certain personality traits choose another line of work.
    Last edit by nursel56 on Oct 26, '11
    HazelLPN likes this.
  6. 0
    First they came for the Med Aides
    and I did not speak out - because I was not a Med Aide.

    Then they came for the LPNs
    and I did not speak out - because I was not an LPN.

    Then they came for the RNs
    and I did not speak out - because I was not an RN.

    Then they came for me -
    and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.
  7. 2
    I just don't understand it. Why spend time fighting it when its going to happen anyway?
    That time could have been spent in school. Plus,you get to make more money.
    Gone are the days when one didn't need a degree to make a good living.
    Its sad,but times have changed.
    kalevra and lindarn like this.
  8. 2
    I think it is very interesting that people turn on each other and not look at who really is to blame or the true cause of this problem. We should all be sticking up for one another from CNA to MSN. We all are working very hard to take good care of people who need us and to put food on our families table. I don't care how much money your making at what ever level of nursing your at, your still not making nor will you ever make in your life time as much as the hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics that are crying that they aren't making enough money. So what do they do, help us turn against each other to keep us from looking at the real problem, greeeeed!!!!!!
    lindarn and nursel56 like this.
  9. 3
    I believe the issue in this case is that the LPNs were given 6 months notice or be fired. I don't know anybody who can finish an LPN-RN program in that amount of time.

    That hospital has every right to hire who they want to. Most places that want to do this don't fill an LPN spot with an LPN when they leave. Somehow it just seems wrong to give a six month deadline or the axe to a person who'd worked there for over 20 years -- and who has union representation that was so incompetent that they had noooooo ideeeeaaa this was going to happen.

    So to me in this case the point isn't so much the RN issue as the crappy way these nurses were treated.
    HazelLPN, GM2RN, and lindarn like this.
  10. 2
    Quote from tferdaise
    I disagree with your idea of the LPN. When the role of the LPN was started it was its own separated degree. However things changed over the years, there are "tech" schools that only have the LPN/LVN schooling, and there are community colleges that allow the ADN student to sit for the LPN boards between the 1st and 2 nd year. I would have to think there are more Community Colleges out there that allow the ADN student to take the LPN boards then there are "tech" schools.

    Healthcare has changed over the last 20 years, and the role of the bedside LPN does not fit in the acute care hospital. There are too many studies that shows this. I was an LPN for 6 years, I was grateful for the experiences I got while working at the Acute Care hospitals. However times have changed and so does nursing.
    I worked in nursing for 54 years and the whole "healthcare had changed" argument is mildly amusing to me. I know nursing has changed becaused I lived and worked it. I didn't read about it from a book or hear about it from a nursing prof who hasn't been at the bedside in many years. I believe I'm what is called a "primary source". I remember when an IV start was an ordeal, and you helped the doctor hold the patient and set up his equipment (notice I didn't say his or hers) the way he wanted it. I didn't start my own IVs until the 60s when I started working in the first ICU in the hospital. I remember calling the docs on a heavy black phone with a single button in the middle that rang the call room to remind him to come draw a gas off the line because nurses didn't do anything with lines. Can you imagine not drawing your own labs off your own line? I don't think the docs would even know how and certainly would make a terrible mess at your bedside trying.

    How did I keep up with the changes? The same way the RNs did. Constant professional development, reflection on one's practice and a love for learning new things. LPNs are not researchers. They are bedside nurses and there will never be a study about the value of veteran LPNs in acute care nursing. It is a CRIME to force out dedicated LPNs who have done the job for many years and site biased and poorly designed research.

    Allow veteran LPNs to do what they do and retire with dignity vs kick them to the curb to be replaced with a young BSN fresh out of college. Sorry, but that new BSN will take years to catch up to that old diploma educated LPN. Years of experience are not easily replaced and education is not the same thing as a degree. It makes me ill when I hear that veteran LPNs are forced out of acute care, or worse, forced to work as techs far below their skill level and pay level. I'm fortuate that I was respected as a nurse and not put out to pasture before my time because poorly designed and biased research said I wasn't allowed to continue doing what I had done very well for 50 years, despite that I wasn't part of the sample. I will be so bold to say that my patients and their families are greatful as well.

    Mrs H.
    nursel56 and harlee like this.


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