Lowering Nursing Salaries - page 15

Have any of you got news of them lowering salaries due to the shortage? There had been talk of the new hires salaries being lowered.... Read More

  1. by   mysticdancer21
    Quote from lindarn
    I DID leave and do something else, ...(that I had no control over), that I finally left bedside nursing, (and also got tired of being paid HS drop out wages for my education, experience and expertise), that I now exclusively do legal nurse consulting. I charge a three figure salary that rewards my education, 30 years of experience, and expertise, something that I am unable to find as a staff nurse. ...


    There is no nursing shortage. There are 500, 000 nurses, who, like myself, have left the profession, or at least bedside nursing. We left because of unsafe staffing, low pay, no respect, the list goes on. The solution is not to continue the revolving door of the nursing profession by adding more and more nursing students to the nursing pool with no effort to retain the ones who are already here. As it is, the ones coming out of school are being thrown to the wolves, and left to sink or swim. There are fewer and fewer experienced nurses to mentor and assist the new grads, and this has caused a high rate of burnout amng new grads. Just look through the threads on this listserve, and you will find a plethora of threads on the subject.
    ...

    I will be interested in hearing you opinions in a couple of years, post graduation. By the way, I was originally a diploma grad (1975). I went back to school to get my BSN within 4 years of graduation. It didn't take me long to figure out who was at the bottom of the food chain in the hospital. It was the nurses with their diplomas, not the therapists, who at the time had a Bachelor's Degree as entry into practice. It wasn't the nutritionists, the social workers, etc., who all had four year college degrees.

    You are essentially, on the out side, looking in. Talk to me in a few years.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    You truly are high on your own pedastal, aren't you? You're BSN program offers managerial classes above the Associates level program. You are trained to staff a unit...Yeah you. I do not discount a BSN degree at all. In fact, on my way towards my Master's I will earn my BSN. I do, however, discount people like you.
    Yes, many nurses have left the hospital setting, which has thus resulted in a nursing shortage; a dangerous patient to nurse ratio on most hospital units. In fact, here in Boston tonight, a news exclusive about the shortage was run. The answer to this crisis is not to leave and throw us to the wolves. It is to stay and advocate for patient safety, or perhaps your program failed to instill that basic concept into your educational plan.
    Oh yeah, it is always the people at the bottom, who are working the hardest by the way, so enjoy your "well deserved six figure income." I am becoming a nurse because I care about people in general, not my pockets.
  2. by   NRSKarenRN
    friendly debate reminder: debate thetopic and not individual posters please.

    back to your regular program....
  3. by   mandrews
    Quote from MTBanRN
    Have any of you got news of them lowering salaries due to the shortage? There had been talk of the new hires salaries being lowered.

    No and I hope my hospital doesn't get any ideas.

    melissa
    :roll
  4. by   lindarn
    Quote from mysticdancer21
    You truly are high on your own pedastal, aren't you? You're BSN program offers managerial classes above the Associates level program. You are trained to staff a unit...Yeah you. I do not discount a BSN degree at all. In fact, on my way towards my Master's I will earn my BSN. I do, however, discount people like you.
    Yes, many nurses have left the hospital setting, which has thus resulted in a nursing shortage; a dangerous patient to nurse ratio on most hospital units. In fact, here in Boston tonight, a news exclusive about the shortage was run. The answer to this crisis is not to leave and throw us to the wolves. It is to stay and advocate for patient safety, or perhaps your program failed to instill that basic concept into your educational plan.
    Oh yeah, it is always the people at the bottom, who are working the hardest by the way, so enjoy your "well deserved six figure income." I am becoming a nurse because I care about people in general, not my pockets.
    PARDON ME! For your information I spent the better part of my career as a staff nurse (in two hospitals in 2 differant states), attempting to educate my co workers about the dangers of short staffing, and the negative consequences of de skilling, labor substitution, the value of having a union to advocate for the staff nurses, the importance of presenting a unified voice to the hospital administors, not back stabbing the nurses who were attempting to advocate for change, etc, the list goes on.

    Unfortunately, the "martyr marys" of nursing were more inventive than I was. They ask for, and demand nothing of the union to do, which keeps them unaccountable to the nurses, only responsive to the hospital administrations requests, they found ways to shoot themselves in the foot, in every sense of the word, and every situation that they should have had the upper hand with management and administration. When we were asked to stay until 11:00 PM, (where we would get double time the entire next day for coming into work with less than 8 hours between shifts), the hospital would ask the nurse to come in a half an hour late the next morning to increase the time to 8 hours, not 7!/2 between shifts. This meant that the hospital would not have to give them OT for that next shift, after they had worked 16 HOURS THE DAY BEFORE, AND EARNED THE DOUBLE TIME. They did not care, as long as they got the OT for the day before. The union that we had was worse than worthless, and still they have not voted them out, and voted in a more powerful and competant union. In the 12 years that I worked there, we got nothing. They signed a new contract that gave them a 5% raise, but increased the medical benefits 20%. Even a mathematically challenged person like myself can figure out that they lost 15% of their wages. The techs, therapists, secretaries, etc, all unionized with 1199 SEIU. They bargained for, and received, Seattle area wages with their first contract. The RNs get Eastern Washington, North Idaho wages, fully 25% or more lower than Seattle.

    The hospital bullies the nurses, there is no workplace advocacy, the state nurses association allowed the nursing homes and assisted living facilities to use medication aides, with almost no disagreement or arguments about the issue.

    In summary, after 30 years, I have given up trying to influence nurses who are too stupid to "save themselves" from workplace abuse, stagnant wages, etc, and just give up without a fight.

    The 500, 000 nurses who have also left, feel the same way that I do. I gave up trying to help a sinking ship. If nurses want to save their profession, they need to learn the skills to do so. Nurses need to help themselves, not always look for a knight in shining armour to help them. They need to practice, "defensive employment", organize with a worthwhile union, not a worthless state nursing association, and stand up for themselves against doctors, nurse managers, and hospital administrators (and sometime the patients and abusive family members). Nurses are throwing themselves to the wolves all on their own. I have written letters to the editor concerning the negative effects of the changes with care re design that were implemted 10 years ago. But not one of the nurses who I worked with would dare do the same. They stand on the sidelines while others go out on a limb, but say nothing in the defense of their stand or issues.

    As I said, I have given up. Maybe someday I will go back to beside nursing when things change. Maybe I wll be able to go back to California, where the nurses have the B&&$# to make effective change.

    In the meantime, I will continue with my business, and collecting my 6 figure salaries. And no, it is not blasphemous to want and demand a professional salary and more money for al of the work that we do and the positive effects that we being to patient care and outcomes.

    Physical Therapists here make $80,000 a year. What, may I ask, in the big scheme of things, do PTs do to deserve salaries that are twice what RNs make? They are not the backbone of the health care system, the eyes and ears of physicians, whose, "failure to rescue", when overworked with too many patients, has caused thousands of deaths over the past decade. They have merely increased their education levels to a doctorate, which decreased access to the profession, and increased their value in the workplace by the law of supply and demand. While the spigot for nurses is wide open. They have the higher salaries, more respect, and we have salary fixing by the hospitals. There is minimal effort to retain the nurses who are already educated, licensed, experienced, and already here. There is no effort to make nurses happy, only, it seems, to piss them off, and watch them walk out the door. With glee, I might add, so they can hire a new grad at half the cost. Nurses don't get it. I am not the problem. I tried to be part of the solution. I tried to fix the problem, but nurses don't want to help in the process.

    Talk to me when nurses are serious about taking control of their profession, and make the necessary changes, before we are eliminated, and de skilled out of our profession. Look at the thread from Tsunami Kim and TM nurse. They say the same thing that I do.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  5. by   P_RN
    friendly debate reminder: debate thetopic and not individual posters please.
    it would be a shame for this thread to be closed. there is too much one on one here. direct complaints to the moderators and debate the topic only please.
  6. by   JessicRN
    Quote from MTBanRN
    Have any of you got news of them lowering salaries due to the shortage? There had been talk of the new hires salaries being lowered.
    Our hospital when I first started I was hired at step 13 which was the top salary. We are unnion so apparently the union had been fighting for a large increase. It hapened 9 months after I started but instead of remaining step 13. I went down to step 11. Now any new nurse coming in starts at step 13 and makes more then me (I have 27 yrs experience as a nurse). Good way to retain nurses. So far all the new nurses have quit but me and I am soon to follow.:angryfire
  7. by   dukeRN
    Quote from SFCardiacRN
    I agree Linda. It's like people working for minimum wage and voting republican. Why they want to keep a group in power that is dedicated to super rich families and corporations is beyond comprehension.
    This could be the greatest quote I have ever read. Residing in republican NC, every day wondering how a state with one of the highest unemployment levels, lowest average educational attainment levels, and above average poverty level manages to consistenty vote republican has infuriated and baffled me many a night. I know it's not a nursing post, but I just had to get it out. Whoo. Thanks for letting me spit that out!!
  8. by   micha26
    I am from a Caribbean country, where the nursing salary is deplorable. Yes, some may say that we are a third world country, but given the ratio of pay among other government workers, we fall well below that of the electrical and water companies, given the reason that their jobs are high maintainance and a necessity, and high risk for injury. The last time I checked nursing itself was a high risk job, and certanly where I practice we have alot of incidence of patient-staff abuse, family member-staff abuse, abuse amongst staff itself, and corporate office-staff abuse, and I am not only talking about verbal abuse, and the abuse of power for those in authority, I am talking about episodes of violence that has left some nurses with injuries that will affect them for the remainder of their lives. I do not know about anywhere else but we are not offered any kind of health insurance or benefits, and with the types of cases nurses as a whole come into contact with I think it has been said very clealry for years that we are not that important.

    As for the qualifications being a BSN in order to enter the practice of nursing, seems like a good idea, for those areas where there are no incentives or rewards to further your education in nursing, it is at times viewed as a waste of time and effort to either bother and further your education, especially for those who do not seek nursing jobs outside of thier homes, or countries. Gone are the days when people view upgrading as essential for their career fulfillment, and the chance of encouraging changes in the environment in which they work, and this is the depressing part.

    For so called "amateur nurses" not being properly oriented, and just being "thrown to the wolves" in a "sink or swim" environment, I feel responsibility and fault lies within the educational system, and within those amateur nurses themselves. Too many times when pupil nurses come to the wards they are quick to say "we are not suppose to do this or that," or "we have not done this in class as yet." What has happened to the assertiveness and the willingness to learn new things in order to gain experience and stay out in front of the class, knowing fully well that we as registered nurses are fully accountable for them during this time of learning. What is up with the educational faculty drilling into these pupil nurses that they are not suppose to do certain things on the ward, even if they are supervised? Here I say that in all cases we as registered nurses should always use our judgement, and should realize skills that might be above their level of competency at their stage, but there is such a thing as observing from their view, and teaching from our view as well. Let's face it with this attitude from the pupils and the faculty, it is no wonder why they sink as they enter the profession.

    Here at home the Associate in Nursing program is four years, compared with the two elsewhere. I have been a Registered Nurse now for four years, and the changes that I have seen in the program and the resultant outcome of the type of graduates themselves within this short amount of time, leaves much to be desired. As I stated in the paragraph above, the assertiveness is no longer there for the majority of the pupils, although many may be book smart, if you can not use it in practice what is the point. At the end of three years we have a ten month internship period where the pupil nurses actually put into practice,(not including the time within those three years where they came on the wards for labs and experience) everything that they have learnt. It includes four major practical assessments, then a major written exam at the end of the tenth month period in order to attain your licence. From what I have seen thus far it is scary and needs to be addressed, because we are talking about taking care of people, and making accurate judgements that may cause a person harm, and even their life. To draw an illustration of how vast the differences are, as a newly graduate nurse four years ago, I was placed in the intensive care unit, some of you may find that shocking and say it should not have been, but competency and practical skill was and is something that I possessed even as a new graduate. I was open and assertive in learning new techniques, and picked up on things very quickly, all be it I was a nervous wreck at first, but no one ever saw that because I had control of it, and not the other way around. So When these pupil nurses on the last leg of their race voices that they can not do this, because their lecturer said so, I simply ask them "so what will you do when in ten months you become a registered nurse and you put on your white uniform, and you have to do it because that falls under your job description, will you know what to do?" The angry and frustrating part about that is, they can not answer. So how can we expect to be valued more and paid more when our standards are lowering.

    As for foreign nurses entering our hospital here they are paid higher than the local nurses. Are they more competent? NO!!! Some have even been caught with false documents. Here again the fault lies within our system, and is another reason why local nurses at home, are also leaving to find better treatment worldwide. I feel alot of us as nurses feel that because there is a shortage worldwide that we can be happier practicing someplace else, and we might, but we need to remember that everywhere has it's own issues as well.

    I do however feel that because nurses is in so much demand, we should be one of the highest paying professions, there are many issues such as some presented above that have to be addressed though. We as nurses worldwide also need to stand together to show our worth, and fight for what we know is right, if we don't then things will always remain the same, or get even worse.

    Although nursing has major issues we all need to remember that it is a caring profession, and our reward will come to us, if we do it with a right and just heart.
  9. by   redem2
    Hospitals,like RNS are so well aware about salaries, benefits and a lot of other good things that would entice
    RNs to apply and stay for good in their hospitals.Before we decided to unionize with CNA when we complain about why our salaries and benefits are not as good as Kaiser hospitals, they told us about community standards.Yes, at the time there were only a
    handful of hospitals that had union. so we decided to get
    educated on how to join the CNA and for the past 5 years
    union density had improved and there are still a lot of nurses working to get unionization in their hospitals.As for us in our hospitals our salaries and benefits had improved tremendously. they told us the hospitals won't be able to afford the improved increases,some nurses
    actually feared for that but hospital corporations are slimy group of crooks , they know every bit of tricks to
    instill fear unto the uneducated / non savvy union people.
    Another anti union trick as far as I'm concerned.

    If you have a contract ,the hospital can not just lower your salary or take away your benefits unilaterally. You are protected by that.To me the more nurses under
    union the stronger we are ,and the more stable our
    future will be.
    Lately, our hospitals had hired a bunch of foreign nurses.
    Our contract also covers them, so they get what we got.
    This ensures that nobody is being treated unfairly.I talk to them about the union and familiarize them about their
    rights.
  10. by   redem2
    If all RNS and healthcare workers join in a worthwhile union (partnership or corporate union should be abolished
    by members) we could really make changes in our political and healthcare conditions.Decades ago , unions were very strong and we are now the recipients of those
    who suffered to bring about the changes that we now enjoy... 8hr shifts, 40hr workweek, every other weekend off, OTs, paid missed breaks and lunch breaks, benefits
    like vacations and pensions. Now corporations are reneging on these benefits and we are allowing them by
    having the federal gov't take over their responsibilities.
    CEOs get their benefits by stock options and cash them
    as quick as possible.
    Haven't we learned enough? It's a revolution!
    The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer,
    and the middle class is disappearing fast!
  11. by   blondesareeasy
    Quote from SFCardiacRN
    I agree Linda. It's like people working for minimum wage and voting republican. Why they want to keep a group in power that is dedicated to super rich families and corporations is beyond comprehension.
    Try running a business with those democratic philosophies. We need minimum wage earners being paid what the market will bear. A 20 dollar an hour union stock boy has no incentive to improve themselves, or am I missing something the gist of your comment here? Communism, perhaps? Free health care for all?

    And I need the "republican" tax breaks to keep my business profitable and so I can continue to "HIRE NEW WORKERS" without their wages being dictated by a union. Tax breaks for businesses allow them to grow and provide jobs.


    Getting too deep here.

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