Lay midwife - baby's death - page 3

If the couple had insisted on using a certified nurse midwife, this would not have happened: A midwife present during the delivery of a newborn who died in a Town of Vernon home last month is... Read More

  1. by   mstigerlily
    Quote from geekgolightly
    If they think it's a big pain in the butt, they should seriously consider finding another line of work. That attitude astounded me.

    Babies may work harder to get breast milk but they are rewarded by better milk, as well as a sharp decrease in desat'ing while feeding.
    I'm a breastfeeding advocate, at least 50% of my job is breastfeeding assistance. I breastfed all my kids and am still BF my son who will be 2 in March. I don't mind BF assistance at all, but L&D nurses don't seem to be so excited about it at our hospital, don't know why. It's like once the baby is out they can't wait to get rid of the moms. To me, that's when the fun really begins.
  2. by   NurseFromTexas
    I work postpartum and feel the majority of our nurses encourage BF. I do have a problem with a few that u work so hard getting this baby latched and finally it works for you. You leave your shift and come back the next day and the other person having them felt it was too difficult and time consuming to help so they discourage this mother and give her a bottle. Or the patient that comes in only wanting to BF but won't and always ask for a bottle stating she will start in the privacy of her own home. If you don't start now it is gonna be harder later. We also don't have many in L&D that truly try to get that infant latched after delivery. I think it should be a requirement that if mother's health allows these infant's attempt to feed prior to coming to our side.
  3. by   Nursesdh
    This has kindof gotten off track to breastfeeding issues! I just wanted to say, it seems to me that LDRP's are a little easier for breastfeeding moms. Babies never leave to go to the nursery and so are not separated from mom, leading to more feeding cues being picked up before baby "should" be hungry. Also, in the three LDRP's I have been at, we have always had a policy that babies should be at the breast within the first hour of delivery - otherwise we have to document the reason why. (Even for C/S moms - we bring baby to mom in recovery.)
    About the actual post. I would be very interested in knowing the senario behind the story a bit more, but what encourages me is the actual rarity of these stories. Believe me, the media loves this type of story for the readers it draws, therefore the rarity of them makes me so glad this does not happen frequently. We do have a lot of checks and balances in place. There is only so much regulation you can do and then you have to say: they were adults and made their own decisions.
    Reminds me of a conversation I had with my Canadian mother-in-law. We saw a man hitch-hiking on an interstate and she asked: "is that legal, he is stupid to walk on the side of this busy road!" I answered, "legal, yes, he is an adult, if he is stupid and gets hurt, it is his own concern." She told me in Canada they try to protect their stupid people. I guess we do to, but sometimes people just manage to get through all the regulations and do something dumb....
    Last edit by Nursesdh on Dec 12, '05 : Reason: oops - already signed in under hubby!!! this is Littlewon!
  4. by   Q.
    I totally agree with Fergus. Unfortunately I lay blame on the educated parties responsible for bringing this poor baby into the world, imo, they failed miserably because of their selfishness. Selfishness of the parents to want a home birth despite medical advice, and selfishness of the MW who wanted to perform the birth despite the mother being high rish and her getting in over her head.

    Sounds to me like a case of shoulder dystocia, but again, I don't know.

    This happened in the county where I work and the MW lives on my side of town (south side of MKE). I would love to be on this jury.
  5. by   orange50
    No the article doesn't state why she was rejected but that is partially irrelevant. When it was beginning to get messy call 911 nat at the last moment while delivering a baby with respiratory and who knows what else problems.
    Home is a perfect place to be with the right assistance. CNM and the correct family and friends. A lay midwife is just way to scary. Pregnancy ease is not necesarily an indication of how the birth will go. And this woman was high risk?!
    Orange 50
  6. by   Jessy_RN
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    The really sad thing is that people are unable to tell the difference between a lay midwife and a certified nurse midwife and when this story makes the rounds it will just be a "midwife" who caused the death.
    How sad and true
  7. by   chuckc
    I have worked with some fabulous, caring, knowledeable lay midwives. I am currently an RN nursing student. My OB rotation was hideous. These people should be charged with some kind of malpractice or lack of caring, seriously. What to do?:uhoh21:
  8. by   chuckc
    I read my post again this AM. It was mean spirited, my apologies.
  9. by   dhall4
    Hi there ~ I want to add to this conversation that no one other then those present at this birth know what happened or what was said. We need to remember that the media likes to sensationalize things to sell papers!! The MW who turned her down was not a CNM...but a CPM (certified practicing midwife), which is also a lay midwife. The MW in question did not perform 6 episiotomies...no one in their right mind would do that ~ She has been practicing for 22 yrs & is very good at what she does. How do I know this??

    After having experienced 3 births (not all good) in a hospital I decided to have a water birth with my 4th baby ~ well the only way to do this is to be at home...I also wanted my 3 older children present as well...the MW in question was the one we hired to care for us during my pregnancy & birth. Not once did she ever do anything that I would have thought selfish, she was very caring to my family & our needs. She made sure that I worked with a Dr who would care for me in case of transport ~ she performed all the tests that my Dr would have done had I seen her every month. The Mw also brought with her the needed equipment in case of an emergency, and is trained to handle emergencies. When my daughter was born she did everything that would have been done at the hospital, but in the comfort of my own home. They stayed with us for over 4 hrs after the birth & did not leave until we were okay. I had better postpartum care from the midwife & her assistant then I ever did in the hospital...in fact I saw them more then I ever saw my Dr.

    I would do it all over again in a heart beat with the same MW ......My question to everyone is this ~ How would this be any different if it had been in a hospital under the care of a CNM or Dr?? The sad fact is that some babies are lost no matter how much we try........I am not saying this out of a cold heart ~ it happened to my own family (while under the care of an OB). From our experience I can tell you that nothing happens......no one charges the Dr w/ anything, no one rips apart their home/office taking "evidence".......the Dr tells you that sometimes it happens and that's it.

    Let's not judge until we have all the facts......in fact the mom did a story & she does not blame the MW for the loss of her daughter ~ http://www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/dec05/377259.asp

    Dana

  10. by   tntrn
    I'm going to be a little defensive here, but teaching breastfeeding to some babies takes a tremendous amount of time. And when you have 4 couplets, you DO NOT have time to spend even an hour at a time in one room. And some babies have to be taught how to do it, not just the mom. It's not like you can watch the video and everyone is on the same page. So yes, sometimes we are happy when a baby that is not feeding well, not gaining weight, is very fussy and in danger of having a low sugar is given some formula. Even when you have a lactation specialist as part of your unit, she is not there 24/7 and can't be everywhere all the time.

    As far as lay midwives go, they don't get it. They don't know when to say when and I've had the experience of having them come in with a patient and proceed to tell us what we should and should not be doing. Which, BTW, had not worked at home, so why would it work with us?
  11. by   orange50
    Quote from dhall4
    Hi there ~ I want to add to this conversation that no one other then those present at this birth know what happened or what was said. We need to remember that the media likes to sensationalize things to sell papers!! The MW who turned her down was not a CNM...but a CPM (certified practicing midwife), which is also a lay midwife. The MW in question did not perform 6 episiotomies...no one in their right mind would do that ~ She has been practicing for 22 yrs & is very good at what she does. How do I know this??

    After having experienced 3 births (not all good) in a hospital I decided to have a water birth with my 4th baby ~ well the only way to do this is to be at home...I also wanted my 3 older children present as well...the MW in question was the one we hired to care for us during my pregnancy & birth. Not once did she ever do anything that I would have thought selfish, she was very caring to my family & our needs. She made sure that I worked with a Dr who would care for me in case of transport ~ she performed all the tests that my Dr would have done had I seen her every month. The Mw also brought with her the needed equipment in case of an emergency, and is trained to handle emergencies. When my daughter was born she did everything that would have been done at the hospital, but in the comfort of my own home. They stayed with us for over 4 hrs after the birth & did not leave until we were okay. I had better postpartum care from the midwife & her assistant then I ever did in the hospital...in fact I saw them more then I ever saw my Dr.

    I would do it all over again in a heart beat with the same MW ......My question to everyone is this ~ How would this be any different if it had been in a hospital under the care of a CNM or Dr?? The sad fact is that some babies are lost no matter how much we try........I am not saying this out of a cold heart ~ it happened to my own family (while under the care of an OB). From our experience I can tell you that nothing happens......no one charges the Dr w/ anything, no one rips apart their home/office taking "evidence".......the Dr tells you that sometimes it happens and that's it.

    Let's not judge until we have all the facts......in fact the mom did a story & she does not blame the MW for the loss of her daughter ~ http://www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/dec05/377259.asp

    Dana
    Thanks Dana; That calms things down a bit some people can't stand to be outside the hospital. While others hate to go inside. There are options and CNM and Home Care (not for delivery) are some options.
    Orange 50
  12. by   mstigerlily
    Quote from dhall4
    My question to everyone is this ~ How would this be any different if it had been in a hospital under the care of a CNM or Dr?? The sad fact is that some babies are lost no matter how much we try........I am not saying this out of a cold heart ~ it happened to my own family (while under the care of an OB). From our experience I can tell you that nothing happens......no one charges the Dr w/ anything, no one rips apart their home/office taking "evidence".......the Dr tells you that sometimes it happens and that's it.
    What would be different in a hospital? Well for one they would have a surgeon available and a dedicated OR suite so they could section that baby within minutes if necessary. Then, they would have the ALS team standing by to resucitate that baby, restart it's heart, intubate, vent if necessary, transport to a LII or LIII nursery. What do you MEAN what would be different? Everything would have been different.

    As far sa your experience, I am sorry you lost a baby. But you are wrong doctors are not blamed. OBs have one of the highest malpractice insurance rates because they get sued so much. They most certainly are investigated and sued. I know because I work in OB and I can think of three cases in just this past year where litigation was mentioned - or actually happened. And that's just the ones I know about.

    I guess I don't understand the scope of practice of a lay midwife. It was my understanding they are not health care professionals and therefore cannot give injections of drugs like pitocin, prescribe medications or perform minor surgical procedures like episiotomies or stitches. CNMs are nurses who are prepared with a Master's Degree and they are highly trained and licensed to prescribe medications and perform some medical procedures.
  13. by   RN4840
    Excuse me~She told them that if anything "tragic" happened she would not accompany them to the hospital and they could not use her name? Any red flags people?

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