Is Healthcare Still a Promising Field? - page 4

I found the following article on USNews when I was checking out a link about PTs being one of the top ten careers in 2009. While perusing through this site, I've read several posts commenting how new... Read More

  1. Visit  Agrippa profile page
    0
    Quote from LandauGuy
    You should learn to read then, as I just spelled it out for you rather plainly.

    Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),23 nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health insurance.
    *
    an unauthorized individual who has been in the United States long enough to qualify under the substantial presence test is classified as a resident alien

    You lost, it's that simple. Get over it.
    I lost? I'm sorry, I didn't know we were playing a game.

    Now if we can be adults here. This is the full paragraph that you quote.

    Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),23 nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens
    who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health
    insurance.24 Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g., temporary visitors,
    temporary workers in the United States for less than 183 days in the year) would not be required
    to obtain health insurance. Notably, the IRC does not contain special rules for individuals who are
    in the United States without authorization (i.e., illegal or unauthorized aliens). Instead, the IRC
    treats these individuals in the same manner as other foreign nationals--an unauthorized
    individual who has been in the United States long enough to qualify under the substantial
    presence test is classified as a resident alien; otherwise, the individual is classified as a
    nonresident alien.25 Thus, it would appear that unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial
    presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance.
    Also, here is the previous paragraph.

    These terms are in the I.R.C.
    but do not exist in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA)15 (i.e., immigration law). As a
    result, the specific immigration statuses under the INA do not align directly with the terms
    resident and nonresident alien. Based on time in the United States and treaty obligations, for
    example, some foreign agricultural workers (H-2A visa holders)16 would be considered resident
    aliens while others would be considered nonresident aliens for tax purposes.
    CRS is trying to determine what they actually mean by unauthorized aliens, legal aliens, permanent aliens, etc since there is no actual code in reference to healthcare and this matter. Thus, they're going by the terms in the I.R.C. They conclude that this ONE BILL out of 5 in congress may result in "unauthorized aliens" being required to buy healthcare insurance.

    This is hardly Obama, or the Democrats giving free healthcare to illegals - a gross distortion. Furthermore, I don't see how requiring the uninsured to get healthcare instead of being free riders is a bad thing. God forbid that uninsured have coverage instead of filling up our ER's and not having any coverage, resulting in taxpayers footing the bill.
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  3. Visit  Agrippa profile page
    0
    Quote from LandauGuy
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ialysis09.html

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/20...liens-dialysis

    Just an example of the tab that Americans are already picking up for illegals in this country.

    Health care stops being a promising field to me when we spend my hard earned money displacing Americans in line for care with illegals. This will only get worse if illegals get free care. Does anyone here honestly think the flow of immigrants will do anything but increase once free care is absolutely assured?
    Yes, because clearly it's all the illegal's fault that our healthcare system is a mess. Talk about scapegoating.

    It is plain delusional to blame illegals that work for less than minimum wage as being the prime reason for our state of healthcare. Blame illegals, but oh no...not those CEO's of insurance companies getting hundred million dollar bonuses. Our rates aren't going up because Blue Cross needs to raise it's quarterly earnings.

    Illegals getting "free healthcare" is simply a red herring being used by Republicans to derail any sort of substantive healthcare reform. Way to get distracted.
  4. Visit  LandauGuy profile page
    1
    It is not a 'gross distortion' at all. Its very clear. Once an illegal is here 183 days (6 months) they qualify as a 'resident alien' and can get care under the Health Exchange. They will be given tax credits for the Exchange. The American public is still footing the bill. Why is this hard for you to grasp?

    Illegals don't deserve care, they are not citizens. Again, a simple concept you apparently fail to grasp. *I* pay for their care and it p!sses me off. Whats going to happen when its 40 million of them getting free care instead of 12 to 15?

    Health care reform doesn't require more handouts, more burden to the taxpayer, and lesser quality of care to legal citizens of this country.
    Last edit by LandauGuy on Sep 26, '09
    RN <>< likes this.
  5. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    0
    LOL, I haven't been coming here cause it was so dead. And looky here.

    I do have a serious question though. About the whole "resident alien" thing.

    So, is it one of those things where something as simple as............a utility bill envelope being mailed to a U.S. address with your name on it is proof of residency?
  6. Visit  LandauGuy profile page
    1
    Quote from eriksoln
    LOL, I haven't been coming here cause it was so dead. And looky here.

    I do have a serious question though. About the whole "resident alien" thing.

    So, is it one of those things where something as simple as............a utility bill envelope being mailed to a U.S. address with your name on it is proof of residency?
    It appears to be pretty much anything that can prove residency:

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=96352,00.html
    You will be considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes if you meet the substantial presence test for the calendar year. To meet this test, you must be physically present in the United States on at least:

    1. 31 days during the current year, and
    2. 183 days during the 3-year period that includes the current year and the 2 years immediately before that, counting:
      • All the days you were present in the current year, and
      • 1/3 of the days you were present in the first year before the current year, and
      • 1/6 of the days you were present in the second year before the current year.

    eriksoln likes this.
  7. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    1
    Hmmm, well, that residency thing seems to be the loophole then. Bah. Maybe I should go back to being A-political. I made a good argument for it when I was that way.

    I still say nursing is a fine working field to be in. Maybe its denial, but I just dont see the landslide of work conditions and wage that others are predicting. Hmmm, maybe instead of getting my BSN, I should go to plumbing school.
    VivaLasViejas likes this.
  8. Visit  LandauGuy profile page
    2
    Quote from eriksoln
    Hmmm, well, that residency thing seems to be the loophole then. Bah. Maybe I should go back to being A-political. I made a good argument for it when I was that way.

    I still say nursing is a fine working field to be in. Maybe its denial, but I just dont see the landslide of work conditions and wage that others are predicting. Hmmm, maybe instead of getting my BSN, I should go to plumbing school.
    Moreso than wage or conditions I fear for quality of patient care. I feel that mexico's government should take care of mexican citizens. Not ONCE have I heard anyone suggest that Mexico pay directly for the care of its citizens in the united states. This is a reasonable, and logical solution that doesn't even enter into the equation.

    I don't want citizens of this country who have contributed to the workforce their entire lives to be in line for care behind illegal immigrants. It is wrong from any perspective. People who fought for this country in wars will potentially be behind illegal immigrants for care? Unacceptable.

    When American citizens will die awaiting transplants because an illegal was in line ahead of them, what sense does that make?

    As I stated, it would be ideal to be able to help everyone, but we don't live in an ideal world. This country is sitting atop 60 Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities. We all know that medicare and social security are on their last legs, and when baby boomers really start to drop out of the work force in substantial numbers in the next 10 to 15 years we are going to be in trouble.

    Throwing more wood on that fire isn't going to help put it out.
    bluemalibu and RN <>< like this.
  9. Visit  PostOpPrincess profile page
    2
    I am very, very concerned that we, as a society, are not proactively training the newer grads and taking them in and preparing for the 2015 exfiltration of nurses.

    I am very concerned that ALL of this hiring freezes, mandatory vaccinations and poor treatment of the newer nurses will hurt and bite them all in the end.

    I cannot understand our and lack of preparation. I just don't get it.

    I am one of many that is going to say, "I told you so."
    Snoopy54321 and Not_A_Hat_Person like this.
  10. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    1
    Quote from JoPACURN
    I am very, very concerned that we, as a society, are not proactively training the newer grads and taking them in and preparing for the 2015 exfiltration of nurses.

    I am very concerned that ALL of this hiring freezes, mandatory vaccinations and poor treatment of the newer nurses will hurt and bite them all in the end.

    I cannot understand our and lack of preparation. I just don't get it.

    I am one of many that is going to say, "I told you so."
    OK. I think that is very relevant to what the OP is interested in, and I am too.

    Explain that to me further if you could. I've heard it before.
    Not_A_Hat_Person likes this.
  11. Visit  LandauGuy profile page
    4
    Quote from eriksoln
    OK. I think that is very relevant to what the OP is interested in, and I am too.

    Explain that to me further if you could. I've heard it before.
    Essentially, 500,000 nurses are 'needed now', and another 500,000 will be needed around 2016 when roughly 500,000 will start to retire from the work force.

    so between now and say, 2020, we supposedly 'need' a million nurses in this country.

    of course, I can't find a job at the moment....

    If nursing continues to be dead end I will kick it to the curb and go do something else. I feel foolish right now for believing the hype and spending substantial amounts of both money and time to become a nurse, then not be able to get a job.
  12. Visit  PostOpPrincess profile page
    2
    Quote from eriksoln
    OK. I think that is very relevant to what the OP is interested in, and I am too.

    Explain that to me further if you could. I've heard it before.
    The field is filled with older nurses that will eventually HAVE to retire (can't do the work anymore, etc.,). When the economy turns around (and it will and it has so often done before)--the experienced nurses leave, go per-diem, advance themselves, stay at home, etc.,

    Who will be left?

    New grads. ****** off new grads.
    Not_A_Hat_Person and RN <>< like this.
  13. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    0
    Ah. And the baby boomer generation getting older adds to the need. Gee, so, I guess in about five years, I'll be in a wonderful situation as a nurse...........<_<...............errr.

    If 2015 is really the start date, I AM SO GOING TO GET MY ASS TO THE ICU WHERE I WANT TO BE BEFORE THEN.
  14. Visit  oramar profile page
    4
    Quote from JoPACURN
    I am very, very concerned that we, as a society, are not proactively training the newer grads and taking them in and preparing for the 2015 exfiltration of nurses.

    I am very concerned that ALL of this hiring freezes, mandatory vaccinations and poor treatment of the newer nurses will hurt and bite them all in the end.

    I cannot understand our and lack of preparation. I just don't get it.

    I am one of many that is going to say, "I told you so."
    Believe it or not this has happened before. In mid 80s to early 90s a whole generation of nurses were lost to a tight job market. This situation help bring on the shortage of the late 90s early 21st century. When the chickens came home to roost and the nurse shortage started you heard healthcare cry and moan but you never heard they take responsibility for the situation. They are doing it again and this time they are going to cause a worse nurse shortage than the one before. I am at the point of closing my ears to the whole business. But I can't can I, one way or another it will affect me.
    Last edit by oramar on Sep 27, '09
    Diaper, Moogie, Not_A_Hat_Person, and 1 other like this.


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