Is Healthcare Still a Promising Field? - page 2

I found the following article on USNews when I was checking out a link about PTs being one of the top ten careers in 2009. While perusing through this site, I've read several posts commenting how new... Read More

  1. Visit  puppyrules profile page
    4
    some people are arguing that unhindered access to health care is a human right. if that is true, any impact that a national healthcare plan has on salaries shouldn't factor into the debate.
  2. Visit  sunshine0509 profile page
    0
    a hospital in nj use to offer new grads 28..now offers 22..i see salaries going down with reform/new grad surplus...at least intill 2020 when baby boomers start retiring
  3. Visit  RN <>< profile page
    0
    Quote from eriksoln
    Actually, non-citizens not getting coverage is one primary advantage to the new bill. As it stands today, if a non-US citizen enters the ER with a........w/e.....pneumonia, they are obligated to treat to the extent an ER can. The person can not be denied care due to lack of proof of citizenship.

    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
    I stand corrected, I had no idea that that was one of his selling points. So if that is true, what happens when non-citizens do become deathly ill? I guess that will be a topic when the time comes. Thank You for your reply.
  4. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    3
    Quote from Nursing for Jesus
    I stand corrected, I had no idea that that was one of his selling points. So if that is true, what happens when non-citizens do become deathly ill? I guess that will be a topic when the time comes. Thank You for your reply.
    Thats where all the "Death panel" comments come from (and, of course, denying elderly life saving tx when the quality of life does not justify it).

    As far as when non-citizens become deathly ill, the theory is that when that comes to pass...............they will be forced to come clean and obtain citizenship. Health care will continue to be denied until they do that, or return to their country or go elsewhere to get the tx they need. If they do obtain citizenship, well, then now you have someone paying taxes, that in return goes into the medical field. They essentially eliminate the "free ride" that exists now. Obama has made many comments about your health care being reflective of your contributions to society/community. Thats what he is referring to. If you are not a tax payer who contributes the the overall process, you don't get the benefits of the process.

    As far as the argument of health care being a "human right" goes, it will never truly enter the equation. Thats one of those things that people live to debate amongst themselves and in classrooms, but when the reality of a completely open door policy is upon people, they change their minds.

    While sitting in their living room, people love to put off an air of morality and lack of care for finances. But, take the consequences of a completely open door policy, and they tend to run out of things to say. With an open door policy, the taxes needed to run the system would be enormous. Most of these people throw the convenient morality right out the window when they see it taking food from their own kids or forcing them to downgrade their taste in cars/homes/location for living etc.

    Also, the open door or "medical tx as a human right" has no chance of passing in any bill. If good health becomes a human right...............and hospitals must continue to grant tx despite inability to pay (taxes in this case, with the debate focusing on non-citizens), then so too must other businesses. Now, you have a system in which utilities can not shut off service due to health related issues (not just talking about heat during the winter). Cable can not deny service because........well, this person has been diagnosed with w/e and needs it. Also, a person must be able to get to the doctors if needed. No more taking back the car someone is behind on payments with, because they dont live near public trans. and go to the doctors for labs to be drawn twice a month. On and on, the list of services people could now abuse because their health is their "human right" is limitless. Too many businesses being affected negatively for it to pass.

    The whole "medical tx as a human right" is heresay, its the stuff of debtors and scholars.....makes interesting coffe shop talk, but has no realistic place in practicing world.
    Nurse Lulu, MandaTaye, and RN <>< like this.
  5. Visit  kittykatty profile page
    0
    Quote from eriksoln
    Actually, non-citizens not getting coverage is one primary advantage to the new bill. As it stands today, if a non-US citizen enters the ER with a........w/e.....pneumonia, they are obligated to treat to the extent an ER can. The person can not be denied care due to lack of proof of citizenship.

    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
    HI I knew that the bill was revised to not allow non-citizens access to healthcare coverage--or so the news outlets say. I would like to know if you have seen it in the bill?--like actually read the wording. I understand that access to the language of the bill will not be available for the public to read before it is voted on. Remember how it was promised that all legislation would be available to read at a government website? Well, I can't find the bill that they are working on. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.The reason I ask is because the reason that non-citizens are allowed to be treated free of charge in the ER is because the Supreme Court actually settled a case that allowed that to be. So Congress will not have the power to change access to ERtreatment for non-citizens. I think the new bill would not allow non-citizens access to healthcare coverage but I don't see how Congress can overrule the Supremes on access to the ER. JMHO Sorry for all the double negatives
  6. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    0
    Oh, the grandfather clause/supreme court ruling would have no effect on it. That ruling was made with the old healthcare delivery system. With a new system in place, new interpretations can now be made........challenged.........and ruled on.

    I'd be willing to bet that orig. ruling was made during better economic times too. These days, people will consider the long term consequences better I would hope.

    Also, as you may see going on now, the interpretation of what the ER is required to do is changing. Before, they had to supply PO antibiotics and all sorts of things. People in the area I live in (people who use ER as a PCP mostly) are complaining that they wait six hours and in the end..........get referred to an OP doctor and are handed a script for w/e. Basically, the ERs approach to care these days is.............."If it wont kill you within the next 24 hrs, its not our problem". So, even if these people seek tx in the ER, the policies are changing to make the ER less of a PCP replacement.
  7. Visit  LandauGuy profile page
    1
    Quote from eriksoln
    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
    Only thats absolutely NOT the case. You seem to be talking a great deal about this without actually having done any research. I hate to see people giving Obama or democrats in general ANY credit regarding illegals not getting care when they did their very best to shoot down republican measures about that very topic (as explained in full below)

    Lets start with the so called killer clause that will keep illegals from getting care:
    "H.R. 3200: Sec 246 ” NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS: Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for
    affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

    reads nicely...EXCEPT for the absolute FACT that the congressional research service says it wont stop illegals from getting care through the Health Insurance Exchange starting in 2013.

    Who is the congressional research service? :
    The congressional research service is an arm of the library of congress. They research issues for members of congress regarding legaility, 'what if' scenarios, social and ethical concerns, etc. They are a massive group of people who only do think tank style stuff for congress.
    Learn about them here: http://www.loc.gov/crsinfo/
    Usually their work isn't known to the public, but occasionally someone will leak one of their reports to make a point to the public, such as the one regarding illegals and health care:
    You can get the report here:
    http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf

    What happened was the democrats placed what they knew would be a defeatable "no federal payment" line into the bill KNOWING it would be defeated. Why do I say this?

    Because they went out of their way to defeat the Heller Amendment.

    What is the Heller Amendment? The Heller Amendment was proposed by Republicans to make absolutely certain with a system of cross checks that illegals could not get care. This amendment was defeated in the Ways and Means Committee by democrats in a 26 to 15 vote along strict party lines.

    How Heller would have worked:
    "The defeated Heller amendment would have required applicants for government provided or subsidized health care to demonstrate eligibility through the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) systems. Similarly, people seeking affordability credits from the government to subsidize the purchase of private insurance would also need to verify their eligibility through IEVS and SAVE. These provisions would have effectively barred illegal aliens from receiving taxpayer funded health care benefits."
    http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?pag...s_iv_ctrl=1741
    Federation for American Immigration Reform. (feel free to google heller amendment anywhere you feel comfortable with)

    So Republican Joe Wilson calls Obama a liar during his speech, because Obama was lying, and everyone knew it, because they had the congressional research service's report on illegals getting care.

    But NOW dems are supposedly "moving to close the loophole" that Joe Wilson called attention to:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...health-reform/

    Lets see if that actually works, or if its just more bull. For the record, in an ideal world, everyone would get care for free regardless of citizenship. But this is not an ideal world, and this country is already drowning in debt. Non-citizens should not receive care without cash in hand. If we collapse the economy, and the country with an endless parade of undeserved freebies, then no one will get care.
    Last edit by LandauGuy on Sep 26, '09
    2bgr8nurse likes this.
  8. Visit  Agrippa profile page
    2
    I feel like these discussions happen every 2 days.

    Yes, the nursing labor market is not as strong as it was 1 or 2 years ago. But then again, what professional field is? There are people with MBAs doing telemarketing. Lawyers are doing temp jobs. Teachers are getting laid off left and right.

    People need to look at this while taking into consideration the state of affairs. Yes our current situation sucks, but healthcare is still a strong field for jobs considering all the other ones.

    And this ridiculousness about obama or dems supporting illegals getting care is so juvenile. He said straight up that it won't - what more do you want?

    You clearly also have no idea how legislation is written. Yes, the bill does not explicitly say that "illegal aliens won't get coverage" or that they won't have access to the public option (which can be quite easily managed). But that doesn't mean that they are going to get access. The bill doesn't also explicitly exclude bigfoot or mermaids either - doesn't mean that "Democrats want to cover THE HAIRY BIGFOOT AND FISHES" ...these ridiculous interpretations are just red herrings that the right wingnuts are trying to use to kill healthcare reform at all costs.
    realhousewife and MandaTaye like this.
  9. Visit  Agrippa profile page
    0
    Quote from sunshine0509
    a hospital in nj use to offer new grads 28..now offers 22..i see salaries going down with reform/new grad surplus...at least intill 2020 when baby boomers start retiring
    This is another reason for forming strong unions. Why should management, corporations, and executives collectively "negotiate" against a single worker? Shouldn't workers also have the right to act collectively if they want as well to aggregate their power? The Company vs. a single worker is clearly a mismatch and thats why they can shove these ridiculous wages down our throats and fire us at any time since we're "at will" employees. You think physicians would take that lying down?
  10. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    0
    Quote from Agrippa
    I feel like these discussions happen every 2 days.

    Yes, the nursing labor market is not as strong as it was 1 or 2 years ago. But then again, what professional field is? There are people with MBAs doing telemarketing. Lawyers are doing temp jobs. Teachers are getting laid off left and right.

    People need to look at this while taking into consideration the state of affairs. Yes our current situation sucks, but healthcare is still a strong field for jobs considering all the other ones.

    And this ridiculousness about obama or dems supporting illegals getting care is so juvenile. He said straight up that it won't - what more do you want?

    You clearly also have no idea how legislation is written. Yes, the bill does not explicitly say that "illegal aliens won't get coverage" or that they won't have access to the public option (which can be quite easily managed). But that doesn't mean that they are going to get access. The bill doesn't also explicitly exclude bigfoot or mermaids either - doesn't mean that "Democrats want to cover THE HAIRY BIGFOOT AND FISHES" ...these ridiculous interpretations are just red herrings that the right wingnuts are trying to use to kill healthcare reform at all costs.
    Yeah, I'm going by listening to Obama, thats it. I dont have time for anything else. The other's interpretation requires way too much reading between the lines for me. I like to take people at face value. Obama says illegals will no longer be covered and explained how that will lower costs (as I did in my original post).

    Its kind of like football coaches trying to out think each other. Coach A talks about running a lot so Coach B says "He is trying to trick me, he is really going to pass". Then coach A thinks "He knows I am really trying to trick him so........................" and on and on. Trying to read the message behind this and that politicians views can get like that. I take it at face value. Obama says the new system will deter free healthcare. If it doesnt, good luck getting my vote next election. Its that simple.
  11. Visit  us2uk4u profile page
    3
    Healthcare is and always will be a promising field. But along with everything else people really should not do this because of the money or because it has been called a "recession proof" profession.

    I resigned from a high paying job to go to nursing school and let me tell you it will take YEARS before I can make what I was making before in the corporate world.

    I became a nurse because I love science, psychology and learning something new each day.
  12. Visit  LandauGuy profile page
    1
    Quote from Agrippa
    ...these ridiculous interpretations are just red herrings that the right wingnuts are trying to use to kill healthcare reform at all costs.
    The congressional research service is an arm of the library of congress and impartial. You should actually know what you're talking about before you comment, because right now, you very much do not.

    Perhaps it was also the 'right wingnuts' who were behind the congressional budget office's assessment that health care done the Obama way would do nothing but drag us deeper into debt, right? Oh wait, no it wasn't because thats an impartial office as well.

    So: The congressional budget office says it'll drive us trillions deeper into debt, and the congressional research service says illegals will get care, and you doubt that? LOL. These people work directly for congress in an official capacity and issue these very reports directly to members of congress.

    I give facts (with links) while you sit and insult with nothing but what you "believe" to be true backing your argument. You should work hard to understand the players and details before you take people at their word.

    The dems in the Ways and Means committee had no reason to defeat the Heller Amendment along strict party lines unless they ABSOLUTELY wanted illegals to get care.
    Last edit by LandauGuy on Sep 26, '09
    hope3456 likes this.
  13. Visit  eriksoln profile page
    1
    Quote from LandauGuy
    The congressional research service is an arm of the library of congress and impartial. You should actually know what you're talking about before you comment, because right now, you very much do not.
    This is why until recently I was A-political. I used to be one of those guys on the Jay Leno skit "Jay Walking" who couldnt answer who the vice pres was. So many political fanatics get so bent out of shape when you dont agree with their interpretations. Thousands of people, all hearing the same speech, all with the same info available to them and each and every single one has a completely different take on the issue.

    You could spend every waking hour interpreting this stuff and be no closer to the truth than me when I didnt know who the VP was. Thats why I like the face value approach.
    Mollypita likes this.

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