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| No. 20 | 
Jun 23, 2009, 03:04 PM
 Re: Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed? Originally Posted by Akinna  anyone commented on Newsweek pages to voice nursing staff problem?
Please note that it was from Business Week, not Newsweek.
 | | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 21 |
Jun 23, 2009, 04:07 PM
Re: Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed? Originally Posted by EmilyLucille523 Then give us new grads a chance to get the experience needed in that area first. We are not dumb, we can figure it out. Originally Posted by nicurn001 PLEASE , PLEASE , PLEASE do not turn this thread into a futile debate on whether foreign nurses are qualified , or due to whatever percieved challenge they present (cultural/ languaue differences ).
All nurses wherever they are from have to meet the state BON requirements as to course content and have to pass the NCLEX exam . If you meet the requirements you are entitled to call yourself a nurse and seek employment as a nurse .
Again, I mean no offense to anyone. However, I ask myself all the time how are we going to become "Experienced Nurses" if an employer does not give us that needed experience in the first place and now we have to compete with our own nurses coming back in the workforce along with foreigners? Does anyone else understand me? Or am I crazy?!? (Don't answer that last part!  )
| | No. 22 |
Jun 23, 2009, 04:19 PM
Re: Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed?
No to importing foreign nurses. There are nurses here, experienced or new grads, that cannot get jobs.
There are other ways rural areas can recruit homeland nurses:
- offer incentives to buy houses and settle in the area (like the teaching profession)
- pay off loans/utilize government programs that pay off school loans for underserved areas...and help new grads find that information (the program is hard to navigate individually)
- commit to creating healthy work environments that nurses will leave urban areas and move to rural areas
Enough with the stop-gap measures; think long term! Expand educational opportunities for American citizens that want to get into nursing. Don't drain poorer, underdeveloped countries of their nurses who are also desperate for talented and educated nursing professionals.
| | No. 27 |
Jun 23, 2009, 05:59 PM
Re: Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed? Originally Posted by nicurn001 PLEASE , PLEASE , PLEASE do not turn this thread into a futile debate on whether foreign nurses are qualified , or due to whatever percieved challenge they present (cultural/ languaue differences ).
All nurses wherever they are from have to meet the state BON requirements as to course content and have to pass the NCLEX exam . If you meet the requirements you are entitled to call yourself a nurse and seek employment as a nurse .
I agree.... The issue isn't wether or not foreign nurses are qualified. They all still have to pass the same state licensing standards and have the same certs. That is not what the problem is. We have plenty of qualified people here already. Plus plenty of people who are paying their dues right now going through nursing school (I'm one of them) who'd like to have a job when they get out of "boot camp".... The people who have the power and can make things happen should get cracking and see to it that this country utilizes it own human resources wisely and efficiently. Whatever it takes..... Offering nurses more money, paying people a bonus to relocate, incentives to hospitals to hire new grads, govt subsidizing nurse education more fully, etc. "Obama has also expressed skepticism about the idea that the U.S. needs to import nurses, in particular because the U.S. unemployment rate continues to rise. "The notion that we would have to import nurses makes absolutely no sense," Obama said at a health-care forum in March. "There are a lot of people [in the U.S.] who would love to be in that helping profession, and yet we just aren't providing the resources to get them trained—that's something we've got to fix." I'm glad someone higher up "gets" this, maybe there's still hope......... | | No. 28 |
Jun 23, 2009, 06:12 PM
Re: Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed? Originally Posted by SouthernComfort31 No to importing foreign nurses. There are nurses here, experienced or new grads, that cannot get jobs.
There are other ways rural areas can recruit homeland nurses:
- offer incentives to buy houses and settle in the area (like the teaching profession)
- pay off loans/utilize government programs that pay off school loans for underserved areas...and help new grads find that information (the program is hard to navigate individually)
- commit to creating healthy work environments that nurses will leave urban areas and move to rural areas
Enough with the stop-gap measures; think long term! Expand educational opportunities for American citizens that want to get into nursing. Don't drain poorer, underdeveloped countries of their nurses who are also desperate for talented and educated nursing professionals.
I live in a big city now, but I grew up in small rural towns in the Midwest. One tiny one-horse town that I used to live in decided a long time ago to address the doctor shortage. What they did is offer incentives for docs to move to the town, got together and built them a fine state of the art clinic, etc. Not sure if they helped pay their school loans off, but wouldn't be surprised if they did as part of the deal. And that clinic of course had to have at least a few nurses and associated health career people. A real-life example that I've seen that proves that if you sweeten the pot a bit, people will come, even to Podunk City, USA.
(All of the people at that clinic were American BTW - most of them were refugees from the big city, who wanted a medical career, and quiet, idyllic country life at the same time)
| | No. 29 |
Jun 23, 2009, 08:02 PM
Re: Immigration: More Foreign Nurses Needed?
Once again, total ignorance prevails with knee-jerk reactions that are NOT based on fact. Originally Posted by lee1 The issue of importing "foreign nurses" to fill vacancy shortages has been going on for more than 40 years. Yes, in some sense it is all about the money and in another sense it is about bringing in nurses who do NOT question their working conditions, etc. etc. They don't rock the boat and the managers who hire them love the fact that they do their work, don't ask too many questions, do what they are told. How would you like to work with a whole group of Nurses who because of their cultural heritage do NOT ask questions, rock the boat, empower themselves or their peers ????
On the other hand many are very good nurses, but becoming part of the Americanized culture (primarily women) takes many years to develop the trust/ empowerment that comes with being raised "American"
I agree that the problem of having too many qualified applicants who are "American", born here, whatever culture they come from or came from legally is the BIG issue. More professors, paid decent, competitive salaries, benefits is what we need NOW. At least Obama has that right.
Who are you talking about exactly? "Foreign" isn't a nationality. I am a foreign nurse working in the USA. My culture is probably >75% similar to the US. I do not "do as I am told", I ask a lot of questions, I am paid the same as any USC would be for the same position (if there was any qualified to do my job). You think I need empowerment? Puhleese.
It is tiring to constantly see "foreign nurses" assumed to be some slightly mute, submissive idiots. Originally Posted by nicurn001 lee1 , it is true that foreign nurses are less likely to rock the boat ,it may also be correct that some may do this due to cultural differences , but the vast majority of foreign nurses keep their heads down because their visa specifies their place of work . If the foreign nurse loses their job for whatever reason , they lose their visa and are liable for deportation if they remain here without a visa , that is a great incentive to not rock the boat .
This is rubbish as well. The "vast majority" of foreign nurses are brought to the US on immigrant visas. They are not revokable if you leave your job - you have an EAD and can work for any employer once you get here. Originally Posted by Alexk49 It costs $10K-$30K to import a foreign nurse. if the hospitals that import nurses, gave this money toward a new graduate in form of a deposit on a home I bet many nurses would move.
Where is your source for this information? What type of visa are you talking about? Where are those costs from? I am a foreign nurse - it cost me about $2000 to fulfil my state licensure requirements including CGFNS and NCLEX costs. It cost me $130AUD for the visa. That's it. That's for an E3. For a H1B, cost is around $9K total (including legal fees). For an immigrant visa, the cost is maybe 2-3000 to cover the medical, application fees, licensure etc. Lawyer fees may be more but certainly not up $20K+.
It costs far more to employ and train a new grad.
With regard to getting those silly foreign nurses over here for tuppence.. or what did someone suggest - $35Kpa? That is ridiculous. Any type of working visa requires labor certification - a process whereby the employer has to prove that they are paying the prevailing wage. In addition, they must post the job for USCs to apply.
There is NO requirement to hire a USC before anyone else, UNLESS THEY HAVE EQUIVALENT SKILLS. If I am an RN with 12 years super-specialized experience, my employer has a right to hire me with my skills and not a grad who could not do the job. Of course they have the right to hire the best person for the job.
I am not pro-foreign nurses before american nurses. Of course, any country must protect its citizens. But you're just not comparing apples to apples.
Hospitals cannot hire new grads if they don't have any experienced nurses to train them. Of course there is a saturation point for new grad positions. There are plenty of RNs who do not work in nursing because it's not financially attractive enough - maybe you all should be more concerned with nurse-patient ratios, getting more RNs back into the workforce to precept the new grads, and nurse pay rates than with the issue of a relatively small number of foreign nurses working in the US.
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