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| Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 51 | 
Jan 09, 2009, 01:25 PM
 Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks
Actually it's not legal in their private lives...if they decide to go to any public building (hospital, restaurant, library, government office, school, church, etc) in the state of Ohio it's ILLEGAL to do so if you are going to smoke in the building or ON the grounds.
You're entitled to your opinion. 
I still think it's pretty weird (rude?) demanding patients to stop smoking "or else risk" their future health, when and if, they see a nurse smoking outside the hospital. It's hypocritical too.
 | | No. 52 |
Jan 09, 2009, 01:47 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by creativemom  Actually it's not legal in their private lives...if they decide to go to any public building (hospital, restaurant, library, government office, school, church, etc) in the state of Ohio it's ILLEGAL to do so if you are going to smoke in the building or ON the grounds.
You're entitled to your opinion.
That may be true, but I was responding to your post about urine/blood tests and smoking cessation classes, so clearly, I was talking about hospitals refusing to hire people for smoking in general.
Of course, I respect the right of a hospital, or any business, to ban smoking on their private grounds. That is their business. I don't beleive, however, that they have any right whatsoever to ban smoking on nearby public sidewalks. It's not their land, so its not their right.
ETA:
Just so we're clear on the meaning of "private lives"...Private life refers to a persons activites away from the workplace. So yes, smoking is completely legal in one's private life, as "private" does not refer to a persons activities on hospital grounds.
| | No. 53 |
Jan 09, 2009, 02:38 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks
A private hospital can set what ever grounds for employment as they please.
If a person agrees to work for them and the hospital explained to the person the rules and they agreed to it. Yea I think it is fair. No one is forcing a person to work anywhere. If they can not comply to the standards of that facility, one can easily find employment elsewhere.
I know this is a hard example for some of you to accept, but in the military, you volunteer to join. You cant do drugs, people are randomly tested. So what you do when you are at work in the military does affect you when you are wearing your uniform.
| | No. 54 |
Jan 09, 2009, 03:23 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by patrick1rn A private hospital can set what ever grounds for employment as they please.
If a person agrees to work for them and the hospital explained to the person the rules and they agreed to it. Yea I think it is fair. No one is forcing a person to work anywhere. If they can not comply to the standards of that facility, one can easily find employment elsewhere.
I know this is a hard example for some of you to accept, but in the military, you volunteer to join. You cant do drugs, people are randomly tested. So what you do when you are at work in the military does affect you when you are wearing your uniform.
By that logic, any private employer would be free to adopt whichever discriminatory hiring practices they please. As I'm sure you are aware, this is not the case. Also, what if all employers adopted this policy? For that matter, what if all employers decided to require that potential employers have a BMI under a certain number [they could claim that overweight employees cost them more money in health care/insurance costs]? What if they decided not to hire you because you ride a motorcycle and thus lead an "unsafe lifestyle"? Surely you must see the problem here?
Also, joining the military cannot be likened to private employment. Private employment is agreeing to to a specific job during certain hours for a specified amount of money. Military service is basically signing your life away for a set number of years and volunteering to make yourself, essentially, a tool at the president's disposal. You are voluntarily giving up many of your rights as a private citizen in order to serve your country. While this is certainly commendable, it has no bearing on the rights that a private employee is entitled to.
ETA:
The fact that you can't do drugs while in the military is completely irrelevant, as we're talking about tobacco use, which is a completely legal indulgence.
| | No. 55 |
Jan 09, 2009, 03:35 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by patrick1rn A private hospital can set what ever grounds for employment as they please.
If a person agrees to work for them and the hospital explained to the person the rules and they agreed to it. Yea I think it is fair. No one is forcing a person to work anywhere. If they can not comply to the standards of that facility, one can easily find employment elsewhere.
I know this is a hard example for some of you to accept, but in the military, you volunteer to join. You cant do drugs, people are randomly tested. So what you do when you are at work in the military does affect you when you are wearing your uniform.
Also, the reason the military operates the way it does when it comes to 'random' drug tests is because when you sign up for the military you are agreeing to 'work' 24/7.
Every second of your life while in the military is considered at work. You may be called up at ANY time. Heck, if they wanted to, they could put you on duty for 5 days straight with no sleep.
THAT is why the military is as strict as it is. Plus the fact that you can't really allow drugs free reign around such a high stress lifestyle.
Military life can not be equated to civilian life. While civilian life SHOULD try to emulate military life in many ways, this is NOT one of them.
| | No. 56 |
Jan 09, 2009, 06:14 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by OC85 By that logic, any private employer would be free to adopt whichever discriminatory hiring practices they please. As I'm sure you are aware, this is not the case. Also, what if all employers adopted this policy? For that matter, what if all employers decided to require that potential employers have a BMI under a certain number [they could claim that overweight employees cost them more money in health care/insurance costs]? What if they decided not to hire you because you ride a motorcycle and thus lead an "unsafe lifestyle"? Surely you must see the problem here?
Also, joining the military cannot be likened to private employment. Private employment is agreeing to to a specific job during certain hours for a specified amount of money. Military service is basically signing your life away for a set number of years and volunteering to make yourself, essentially, a tool at the president's disposal. You are voluntarily giving up many of your rights as a private citizen in order to serve your country. While this is certainly commendable, it has no bearing on the rights that a private employee is entitled to.
ETA:
The fact that you can't do drugs while in the military is completely irrelevant, as we're talking about tobacco use, which is a completely legal indulgence.
You said everything I was about to say in my response.
| | No. 57 |
Jan 09, 2009, 06:21 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by patrick1rn A private hospital can set what ever grounds for employment as they please.
If a person agrees to work for them and the hospital explained to the person the rules and they agreed to it. Yea I think it is fair. No one is forcing a person to work anywhere. If they can not comply to the standards of that facility, one can easily find employment elsewhere.
So not true...
And what you agree to abide by as an employee is ENTIRELY different than discriminatory hiring practices. And even then, I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on if they tried to make someone abstain from LEGALLY smoking cigarettes while off duty. They are well-within their rights to say, "We don't permit you to smoke during your work hours." But they can't regulate what LEGAL activities a person engages in during their off-duty time. Originally Posted by patrick1rn I know this is a hard example for some of you to accept, but in the military, you volunteer to join. You cant do drugs, people are randomly tested. So what you do when you are at work in the military does affect you when you are wearing your uniform.
Smoking in your off-duty time can be likened to eating a whole bag of oreos in one sitting. It's unhealthy. It's not advisable. BUT IT'S LEGAL. How about if they don't hire people who consume oreos? Or deep-fried foods? Or people who skateboard? Or people who go skiing? These can be dangerous activities...
| | No. 58 |
Jan 09, 2009, 06:58 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by cnm in progress So not true...
And what you agree to abide by as an employee is ENTIRELY different than discriminatory hiring practices. And even then, I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on if they tried to make someone abstain from LEGALLY smoking cigarettes while off duty. They are well-within their rights to say, "We don't permit you to smoke during your work hours." But they can't regulate what LEGAL activities a person engages in during their off-duty time.
Smoking in your off-duty time can be likened to eating a whole bag of oreos in one sitting. It's unhealthy. It's not advisable. BUT IT'S LEGAL. How about if they don't hire people who consume oreos? Or deep-fried foods? Or people who skateboard? Or people who go skiing? These can be dangerous activities...
I have to agree with you, while a private entity can not tell you that you can not smoke while you are working for them, if you agree to submit to urine and blood tests for nicotine, then that is a term of your employment. I do not see how that is discriminatory. This has nothing to do with race, gender, sexual preference, creed or disability. So yes they can not regulate legal activities, but if you agree to work for such a company, then you are subject those tests, and if that is a condition of employment.. well then that is on you .
Be realistic, this has nothing to do with eating a cookie, fried foods or sports activities. They dont fry foods at the catalina wine mixer and smoking is not allowed, but people still go...
| | No. 59 |
Jan 09, 2009, 07:15 PM
Re: Hospital extends smoking ban to nearby sidewalks Originally Posted by patrick1rn I have to agree with you, while a private entity can not tell you that you can not smoke while you are working for them, if you agree to submit to urine and blood tests for nicotine, then that is a term of your employment. I do not see how that is discriminatory. This has nothing to do with race, gender, sexual preference, creed or disability. So yes they can not regulate legal activities, but if you agree to work for such a company, then you are subject those tests, and if that is a condition of employment.. well then that is on you .
Be realistic, this has nothing to do with eating a cookie, fried foods or sports activities. They dont fry foods at the catalina wine mixer and smoking is not allowed, but people still go...
My point is that what you do LEGALLY in your free time can NOT be a condition for employment. It's not legal to even ASK someone to submit to such inquiry. As an employer, you can't even ask me if I have children or if I'm married, let alone if I smoke. It's crossing a boundary that shouldn't be crossed. As a potential employer, you can say to me in the interview process, "If offered a job here, you won't be permitted to smoke during work hours. Will you be able to abide by that?" But you can't even ask if I smoke. It is not related to my ability to perform the duties of the job, nor is it related to my honesty, integrity, or work-ethics. Have you ever been responsible for interviewing, hiring, & firing? I have. Unless the laws have changed drastically, it's not legal.
Never once did I say this has anything to do with eating cookies or fried foods. It has to do with an employer trying to regulate dangerous and/or unhealthy habits that I have. What on earth does the Catalina wine mixer have to do with anything???
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