Hospital ban for abusive patients - page 2

Hospital ban for abusive patients Jun 3 2004 By Matt Withers Daily Post WELSH hospitals have been forced to turn to the courts in a bid to ban abusive patients.... Read More

  1. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Dr. Gonzo
    Would a healthcare worker just lose their job if they hit a patient that just assaulted them or go to jail?
    i've also wondered about what one is supposed to do to defend themselves.
  2. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Nitengale326
    In my first year of nursing at the ripe old age of 19... a patient hit me and boke my jaw. He was admitted for "weakness". It took 3 security guards to get him under control. His issue... he wanted to be home for Christmas! (His family were friends with the doc and they wanted a respite for a family trip for the holidays). Fortunately, the docs didn't say "you must have...." and the hospital was great to me. But now, 25 years later.... the facilty support is not there and the MD support is not there. I (cynically) feel that families should for the most part be met at the door and told NO VISITING HOURS...AT ALL!!!! They cause so many more problems than the patients do. Especially in long term care. There have been times that our staff has been assaulted by family and patients and were threatened by administration that if they pursued legal action, they would be fired. We have plans in place for terrorists, and for robbers but nothing to protect the staff from getting beat up! I think this is an issue that the ANA should take on and force the legislation to address ... let us see something positive from those inflated dues!!!:angryfire
    isn't that the truth! we take too many damn abuses in all different shapes and forms. i am so with you. :angryfire
  3. by   Dr. Gonzo
    I know one thing if a patient hits me or a female nurse their ending up in the ICU if they hit a Doctor though im just gonna stand their and have a good laugh.:chuckle
  4. by   nursebedlam
    Quote from Dr. Gonzo
    I know one thing if a patient hits me or a female nurse their ending up in the ICU if they hit a Doctor though im just gonna stand their and have a good laugh.:chuckle
    Why would you laugh about a Dr getting hit ????????
  5. by   fergus51
    You are only allowed to defend yourself using reasonable force, and that means the least amount of force needed. That means if you can walk away from a bedridden patient you walk away, you don't get to beat them up because you're mad.
  6. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from fergus51
    You are only allowed to defend yourself using reasonable force, and that means the least amount of force needed. That means if you can walk away from a bedridden patient you walk away, you don't get to beat them up because you're mad.
    true. but what if a male pt. physically assaults a nurse. are we merely just supposed to try and escape their grips or can we (legally) fight back, given that it's a 1:1 situation? i had a male pt. try and assault and rape me...he was hitting me with his pants down trying to get on top of me!! it wasn't long before help came but in the meantime i had taken the heel of my hand and smashed it on the underside of his nose....i ended up going home that noc, did not stay out on leave BUT the administration was going to keep him there and were just going to order a stat psyche eval....i threatened to not only file charges against this pt. but against the entire facility...that is when they pink slipped him. but it was also inferred that i had no right hitting this pt., after all, he was a patient... :angryfire
  7. by   fergus51
    Quote from earle58
    true. but what if a male pt. physically assaults a nurse. are we merely just supposed to try and escape their grips or can we (legally) fight back, given that it's a 1:1 situation? i had a male pt. try and assault and rape me...he was hitting me with his pants down trying to get on top of me!! it wasn't long before help came but in the meantime i had taken the heel of my hand and smashed it on the underside of his nose....i ended up going home that noc, did not stay out on leave BUT the administration was going to keep him there and were just going to order a stat psyche eval....i threatened to not only file charges against this pt. but against the entire facility...that is when they pink slipped him. but it was also inferred that i had no right hitting this pt., after all, he was a patient... :angryfire
    You used the necessary force to defend yourself, nothing more. That's allowed. You couldn't just avoid him so you hit him back and called for help. Nothing unreasonable about it, so it's perfectly fine.

    My understanding is you do what you have to in order to protect yourself. If you can't get away you fight back until you can and that's fine. If 3 coworkers got him off and started beating him with an IV pole, that would be unreasonable, kwim? It's just about common sense
  8. by   VivaLasViejas
    I had a patient about 3-4 months ago who was maybe 120 pounds soaking wet, but was going through ETOH withdrawal, which as we all know tends to give people super-human strength........Anyway, when the DTs hit him, he got out of bed, totally paranoid, and grabbed a knife that he'd stashed in his bedside drawer, holding me, the CNA, and the nursing supervisor at bay until the takedown team got there (I'd yanked the call light out of the wall, activating the alarm system, and called a Code 5 the instant he pulled the knife). It took EIGHT staff members, using all of our strength, over an hour to get the knife away from him and four-point leather restraints on. During this process, he fought us, hard.......biting, kicking, punching anyone who came within reach, and one security guard was kicked so hard in the leg that he ended up on disability.

    Even after the worst was over, and he had something like 12 mg. of Ativan in his veins, the guy was still marching the bed across the room and nearly broke the straps.......if he had, some of us undoubtedly would have been killed.

    Granted, people in DTs do not exactly have good control over their actions, but this guy was so combative that the incident literally required pages of documentation because we could NOT release his restraints, even one at a time, or he would have put our lights out. He went on like this for two full days......then suddenly he came out of it and he was as nice a fellow as you could meet. Maybe that's why the hospital never pressed charges....... :uhoh21:

    Like many nurses, I tend to regard the possibility of being killed or injured on the job with a fatalistic attitude: no matter what happens, the patient will more than likely be held blameless because he or she was "on something" and "couldn't help it". I don't imagine that would be of much comfort to my family, but society---not to mention hospital administration---just hasn't gotten the idea that patients should be held responsible for their actions, reagrdless of what "caused" them to behave that way. :angryfire
  9. by   appo
    Ther should be a zero tolerance of all violence/aggressive incidents within the health care sector allthough incidents are undoubtedly still going to occur. The incidents that do occur should allways result in charges being pressed regardless of how ill the patient is. As Psychiatric Nurses a large element of our work involves risk management and pressing charges will allways ensure that an acurate record of that patients potential for hostility/violence is allways at the forefront of future admissions reducing future risk. Allthough this does not change how traumatic this experience was for the nurse involved, it shows that there are consequences for the patient to accept for his actions because this is not an acceptable way to behave in modern society.

    I myself have been assualted in the work place and tended to follow the idea that it is part of the job however this is an unacceptable assumption and hospital managers shoud be supporting their staff in any action they wish to take.
    I currently work in the United Kingdom on a P.I.C.U and despite all of our managers faults they are supportive with regard to violent incidents with staff.
    Are the staff trained in Care and Responsibility teqniques?
  10. by   Dr. Gonzo
    Quote from nursebedlam
    Why would you laugh about a Dr getting hit ????????
    Because they rarely have the backs of Nurses when they get assaulted.
  11. by   hock1
    Quote from Dr. Gonzo
    Would a healthcare worker just lose their job if they hit a patient that just assaulted them or go to jail?
    In my facility we were told in orientation that we would lose our job. I've known of one employee who worked mental health (much tougher rules) who was in the process of subduing a violent patient, tripped and fell on top of the pt and caused an injury to the pt. The worker was fired. As far as other floors, we are not even allowed to 'talk back'. Our one line reply is supposed to be offically, "I apologize for (upsetting situation). How can I make it better." It's easier said that done when a pt has a shaking finger in ones face and bad language coming out of the mouth. Coworkers have been written up for 'talking back', but none fired. Hitting results in instantaneous firing.
  12. by   nursebedlam
    Quote from Dr. Gonzo
    Because they rarely have the backs of Nurses when they get assaulted.
    With a tittle like Dr Gonzo, that makes me chuckle.
  13. by   Dr. Gonzo
    Quote from nursebedlam
    With a tittle like Dr Gonzo, that makes me chuckle.
    I got the name from a movie fear and loathing in las vegas funny movie made me chuckle hopefully im gonna be chucking the same when i see a doctor get assaulted.:chuckle

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