Is Healthcare Still a Promising Field? - page 2

by VYisgod 14,248 Views | 55 Comments

I found the following article on USNews when I was checking out a link about PTs being one of the top ten careers in 2009. While perusing through this site, I've read several posts commenting how new RN graduates are having hard... Read More


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    In my opinion I see our wages going down with this new health care bill because if you have large lines of US citizens and US Non citizens then where is the money going to come from to pay health care workers? The Government cannot do it all. I foresee good physicians leaving, and good nurses tiring for less money. That is just my opinion.
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    Thank You for the article it definitely brings an explanation to many of my graduate nurse friends. I will share this with them today.
    VYisgod likes this.
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    Quote from Nursing for Jesus
    In my opinion I see our wages going down with this new health care bill because if you have large lines of US citizens and US Non citizens then where is the money going to come from to pay health care workers? The Government cannot do it all. I foresee good physicians leaving, and good nurses tiring for less money. That is just my opinion.
    Actually, non-citizens not getting coverage is one primary advantage to the new bill. As it stands today, if a non-US citizen enters the ER with a........w/e.....pneumonia, they are obligated to treat to the extent an ER can. The person can not be denied care due to lack of proof of citizenship.

    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
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    some people are arguing that unhindered access to health care is a human right. if that is true, any impact that a national healthcare plan has on salaries shouldn't factor into the debate.
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    a hospital in nj use to offer new grads 28..now offers 22..i see salaries going down with reform/new grad surplus...at least intill 2020 when baby boomers start retiring
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    Quote from eriksoln
    Actually, non-citizens not getting coverage is one primary advantage to the new bill. As it stands today, if a non-US citizen enters the ER with a........w/e.....pneumonia, they are obligated to treat to the extent an ER can. The person can not be denied care due to lack of proof of citizenship.

    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
    I stand corrected, I had no idea that that was one of his selling points. So if that is true, what happens when non-citizens do become deathly ill? I guess that will be a topic when the time comes. Thank You for your reply.
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    Quote from Nursing for Jesus
    I stand corrected, I had no idea that that was one of his selling points. So if that is true, what happens when non-citizens do become deathly ill? I guess that will be a topic when the time comes. Thank You for your reply.
    Thats where all the "Death panel" comments come from (and, of course, denying elderly life saving tx when the quality of life does not justify it).

    As far as when non-citizens become deathly ill, the theory is that when that comes to pass...............they will be forced to come clean and obtain citizenship. Health care will continue to be denied until they do that, or return to their country or go elsewhere to get the tx they need. If they do obtain citizenship, well, then now you have someone paying taxes, that in return goes into the medical field. They essentially eliminate the "free ride" that exists now. Obama has made many comments about your health care being reflective of your contributions to society/community. Thats what he is referring to. If you are not a tax payer who contributes the the overall process, you don't get the benefits of the process.

    As far as the argument of health care being a "human right" goes, it will never truly enter the equation. Thats one of those things that people live to debate amongst themselves and in classrooms, but when the reality of a completely open door policy is upon people, they change their minds.

    While sitting in their living room, people love to put off an air of morality and lack of care for finances. But, take the consequences of a completely open door policy, and they tend to run out of things to say. With an open door policy, the taxes needed to run the system would be enormous. Most of these people throw the convenient morality right out the window when they see it taking food from their own kids or forcing them to downgrade their taste in cars/homes/location for living etc.

    Also, the open door or "medical tx as a human right" has no chance of passing in any bill. If good health becomes a human right...............and hospitals must continue to grant tx despite inability to pay (taxes in this case, with the debate focusing on non-citizens), then so too must other businesses. Now, you have a system in which utilities can not shut off service due to health related issues (not just talking about heat during the winter). Cable can not deny service because........well, this person has been diagnosed with w/e and needs it. Also, a person must be able to get to the doctors if needed. No more taking back the car someone is behind on payments with, because they dont live near public trans. and go to the doctors for labs to be drawn twice a month. On and on, the list of services people could now abuse because their health is their "human right" is limitless. Too many businesses being affected negatively for it to pass.

    The whole "medical tx as a human right" is heresay, its the stuff of debtors and scholars.....makes interesting coffe shop talk, but has no realistic place in practicing world.
    Nurse Lulu, MandaTaye, and RN <>< like this.
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    Quote from eriksoln
    Actually, non-citizens not getting coverage is one primary advantage to the new bill. As it stands today, if a non-US citizen enters the ER with a........w/e.....pneumonia, they are obligated to treat to the extent an ER can. The person can not be denied care due to lack of proof of citizenship.

    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
    HI I knew that the bill was revised to not allow non-citizens access to healthcare coverage--or so the news outlets say. I would like to know if you have seen it in the bill?--like actually read the wording. I understand that access to the language of the bill will not be available for the public to read before it is voted on. Remember how it was promised that all legislation would be available to read at a government website? Well, I can't find the bill that they are working on. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.The reason I ask is because the reason that non-citizens are allowed to be treated free of charge in the ER is because the Supreme Court actually settled a case that allowed that to be. So Congress will not have the power to change access to ERtreatment for non-citizens. I think the new bill would not allow non-citizens access to healthcare coverage but I don't see how Congress can overrule the Supremes on access to the ER. JMHO Sorry for all the double negatives
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    Oh, the grandfather clause/supreme court ruling would have no effect on it. That ruling was made with the old healthcare delivery system. With a new system in place, new interpretations can now be made........challenged.........and ruled on.

    I'd be willing to bet that orig. ruling was made during better economic times too. These days, people will consider the long term consequences better I would hope.

    Also, as you may see going on now, the interpretation of what the ER is required to do is changing. Before, they had to supply PO antibiotics and all sorts of things. People in the area I live in (people who use ER as a PCP mostly) are complaining that they wait six hours and in the end..........get referred to an OP doctor and are handed a script for w/e. Basically, the ERs approach to care these days is.............."If it wont kill you within the next 24 hrs, its not our problem". So, even if these people seek tx in the ER, the policies are changing to make the ER less of a PCP replacement.
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    Quote from eriksoln
    With the new bill, if one can not produce ID or proof of citizenship, they are not granted access to the ER, period. Its on of Obama's biggest selling points of the bill.
    Only thats absolutely NOT the case. You seem to be talking a great deal about this without actually having done any research. I hate to see people giving Obama or democrats in general ANY credit regarding illegals not getting care when they did their very best to shoot down republican measures about that very topic (as explained in full below)

    Lets start with the so called killer clause that will keep illegals from getting care:
    "H.R. 3200: Sec 246 ” NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS: Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for
    affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

    reads nicely...EXCEPT for the absolute FACT that the congressional research service says it wont stop illegals from getting care through the Health Insurance Exchange starting in 2013.

    Who is the congressional research service? :
    The congressional research service is an arm of the library of congress. They research issues for members of congress regarding legaility, 'what if' scenarios, social and ethical concerns, etc. They are a massive group of people who only do think tank style stuff for congress.
    Learn about them here: http://www.loc.gov/crsinfo/
    Usually their work isn't known to the public, but occasionally someone will leak one of their reports to make a point to the public, such as the one regarding illegals and health care:
    You can get the report here:
    http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf

    What happened was the democrats placed what they knew would be a defeatable "no federal payment" line into the bill KNOWING it would be defeated. Why do I say this?

    Because they went out of their way to defeat the Heller Amendment.

    What is the Heller Amendment? The Heller Amendment was proposed by Republicans to make absolutely certain with a system of cross checks that illegals could not get care. This amendment was defeated in the Ways and Means Committee by democrats in a 26 to 15 vote along strict party lines.

    How Heller would have worked:
    "The defeated Heller amendment would have required applicants for government provided or subsidized health care to demonstrate eligibility through the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) systems. Similarly, people seeking affordability credits from the government to subsidize the purchase of private insurance would also need to verify their eligibility through IEVS and SAVE. These provisions would have effectively barred illegal aliens from receiving taxpayer funded health care benefits."
    http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?pag...s_iv_ctrl=1741
    Federation for American Immigration Reform. (feel free to google heller amendment anywhere you feel comfortable with)

    So Republican Joe Wilson calls Obama a liar during his speech, because Obama was lying, and everyone knew it, because they had the congressional research service's report on illegals getting care.

    But NOW dems are supposedly "moving to close the loophole" that Joe Wilson called attention to:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...health-reform/

    Lets see if that actually works, or if its just more bull. For the record, in an ideal world, everyone would get care for free regardless of citizenship. But this is not an ideal world, and this country is already drowning in debt. Non-citizens should not receive care without cash in hand. If we collapse the economy, and the country with an endless parade of undeserved freebies, then no one will get care.
    Last edit by LandauGuy on Sep 26, '09
    2bgr8nurse likes this.


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