Girl Brain Dead after Tonsillectomy - page 33

by J.A.B.,SN 543,165 Views | 2602 Comments

This is such a tragic story and breaks my heart to hear of this, but shouldn't the people caring for this girl realized that she was hemorrhaging and that amount of blood was NOT normal? I mean I am not even a nurse yet but I... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I don't see the correlation. Jahi's heart IS beating. I've seen some pretty sad outcomes when people won't give up coding a dead person. That's different than what is happening now.
    Is it really? Take Jahi off the vent (since she cannot breathe at all on her own because she is brain dead) and it will not take long for her heart to stop beating.

    I don't say this to sound cruel. I've just seen some pretty horrid pedi codes where you have a heartbeat and still have a dead kid. They just don't make headlines and their parents withdraw support when they are determined brain dead.
  2. 7
    It is hard to view a brain dead person as dead. My mom was declared brain dead 5 days out from an aneurysm blowing and a sucky community hospital not transporting her out soon enough to get coiled.

    I remember standing there, watching her "breathe" on the vent, she was warm and while very puffy from all the fluids and vasopressors needed to keep her BP up, it was my mom. It was hard to leave that room with her looking like that when the organ procrument team arrives and were ready to take her. Even though I totally trusted the Neuro docs and surgeon at my hospital I had nightmares for months after that she was really alive when they took her organs. But I knew in my heart this was a husk of the person that once was. I still have family that resent my decision to take her off the vent, for many of the reasons this family is giving. People don't understand.

    Given all this, sometimes there are worse things than dying.
  3. 4
    Corpse brings to mind a more clinical and dispassionate image of the dead girl. It may be accurate but it is not compassionate. While the girl is dead, her family must still go on. Taking the time now to bring the family to a place of acceptance should be the goal- not to slap hem them in the face with it - at least to avoid it if possible. This is not my quote but ' if denial is being used as a crutch, don't pull it away until they have something else to lean on.
    Even if the family does not learn or come to accept their daughter's death, the way this situation is covered and explained may do a lot to help other families come to terms with similar situations in the future.
  4. 7
    Quote from chopwood carrywater
    Corpse brings to mind a more clinical and dispassionate image of the dead girl. It may be accurate but it is not compassionate. While the girl is dead, her family must still go on. Taking the time now to bring the family to a place of acceptance should be the goal- not to slap hem them in the face with it - at least to avoid it if possible. This is not my quote but ' if denial is being used as a crutch, don't pull it away until they have something else to lean on. Even if the family does not learn or come to accept their daughter's death, the way this situation is covered and explained may do a lot to help other families come to terms with similar situations in the future.
    Being given time to deal with it is one thing, but how long is enough time when the family refuses to believe she is brain dead?

    It is my opinion that the family has created a media circus that has fed into a lot of incorrect information being disseminated. The hospital, due to HIPAA, has remained silent for the most part. They have not been able to explain anything pertinent to this case so the public is getting very emotional, one-sided, inaccurate information about this case and patients who are brain dead.
  5. 3
    So, physiologically..... What is going on inside her right now? She's had no nutrition, and meds are keeping her going, right? But what's happening in her body? A dear family member passed on in November after a pulmonary embolism in a pulmonary vein, which stopped her heart and she never did wake up. She was sedated (only because she'd seize when they tried waking her up), had vasopressors, and was on a vent. Now, she was facing cardiac death, not brain, but ultimately, her organs started failing. Her kidneys stopped, her intestines stopped, they stopped feedings because her residuals indicated nothing was moving beyond her stomach. She was mush, pretty much. Jahi has extremely different circumstances, of course, but 3 weeks with nothing going in but meds, and no basic brain function .... Wouldn't she essentially be mush as well?
  6. 2
    I understand what you are saying. I agree with the gist of it. So let me ask you ... How much time should be enough?
    I will assume that they are not doing this for financial gain - and even if they are, there is still as valid conversation to be had re this type of situation - but they are in a situation where all of a sudden the world is aware of their situation and everyone has an opinion or a judgement to make. I hope they find peace and acceptance soon.
    SoldierNurse22 and Esme12 like this.
  7. 1
    Quote from Momofnurse9
    Hi - I'm not a nurse, but I just have so many questions. I value nurses very highly, since I have been the family member / health advocate for way too many relatives (I'm the youngest in a big family ) - I really appreciate all you do! Also my daughter is a nurse!!
    I agree with Spidey's Mom that most people would react very negatively to hear their loved one referred to as a "corpse", and I think most nurses would err on the side of kindness and not use that term. In this particular case, I would guess everyone is walking on eggshells, and have probably been advised by their administrators exactly what to say and how to proceed.

    My question for you nurses is this - three weeks after brain death was declared, are the organs even viable for donation? Because on other sites, people use contradicting terms referring both to the body decomposing, as well as the body HEALING - in terms of not being able to determine cause / wrong-doing if and when an autopsy is performed! There is a lot of mis-information, and pure speculation out there, to say the least. Thanks for your time! : )
    Nurses at the bedside I am sure are not using that term and even when a patient has passed in my care I do not refer to them as the corpse to the family. I will say your mother will be picked up by the funeral home you need to make arrangements for your mother....etc.

    Three weeks into this it is unlikely that they would use vital organs such as lungs/liver/kidneys but this would depend on the vent settings the levels of drugs to maintain vital signs, lab results, abgs all combined to see what, if any deterioration has occurred. They can still do organ donation AND be a coroners case. There have been times even a brain death from an assault beating was an organ donor. There is skin, corneas heart valves that can be harvested IF the family gives permission....which this family will be unlikely to do.

    Once the autonomic life sustaining functions of the brain the rest of the systems begin to fail. The rate at which they fail is dependent upon the patients age and pre-existing conditions. There is no healing that essentially occurs and the body is continually deteriorating and susceptible to infection. The body will fail. Even IF healing occurs there will be evidence of injury and disturbance to then tissues. They will look at this as well as the chart for the documentation of events and operative reports to determine cause of death and responsibility IF any involving the care of this child.
    SoldierNurse22 likes this.
  8. 3
    Quote from ixchel
    So, physiologically..... What is going on inside her right now? She's had no nutrition, and meds are keeping her going, right? But what's happening in her body? A dear family member passed on in November after a pulmonary embolism in a pulmonary vein, which stopped her heart and she never did wake up. She was sedated (only because she'd seize when they tried waking her up), had vasopressors, and was on a vent. Now, she was facing cardiac death, not brain, but ultimately, her organs started failing. Her kidneys stopped, her intestines stopped, they stopped feedings because her residuals indicated nothing was moving beyond her stomach. She was mush, pretty much. Jahi has extremely different circumstances, of course, but 3 weeks with nothing going in but meds, and no basic brain function .... Wouldn't she essentially be mush as well?
    essentially, eventually...yes. Nutrition will not prevent this process as they probably couldn't feed her as her bowels are probably not functional and TPN would be hard on her already failing kidneys and liver.
  9. 3
    Quote from Esme12
    Nurses at the bedside I am sure are not using that term and even when a patient has passed in my care I do not refer to them as the corpse to the family. I will say your mother will be picked up by the funeral home you need to make arrangements for your mother....etc. Three weeks into this it is unlikely that they would use vital organs such as lungs/liver/kidneys but this would depend on the vent settings the levels of drugs to maintain vital signs, lab results, abgs all combined to see what, if any deterioration has occurred. They can still do organ donation AND be a coroners case. There have been times even a brain death from an assault beating was an organ donor. There is skin, corneas heart valves that can be harvested IF the family gives permission....which this family will be unlikely to do. Once the autonomic life sustaining functions of the brain the rest of the systems begin to fail. The rate at which they fail is dependent upon the patients age and pre-existing conditions. There is no healing that essentially occurs and the body is continually deteriorating and susceptible to infection. The body will fail. Even IF healing occurs there will be evidence of injury and disturbance to then tissues. They will look at this as well as the chart for the documentation of events and operative reports to determine cause of death and responsibility IF any involving the care of this child.
    This makes me wonder if keeping her on support like this could actually be damaging the family's shot at a lawsuit if it turns out the hospital WAS somehow negligent. Surely the "evidence" of that is deteriorating with her.
    SHGR, SoldierNurse22, and 0.adamantite like this.
  10. 2
    Quote from Esme12
    essentially, eventually...yes. Nutrition will not prevent this process as they probably couldn't feed her as her bowels are probably not functional and TPN would be hard on her already failing kidneys and liver.
    Thank you for your response. How long do you think that would take? Or is it unlikely to be known in a generalized way?
    SoldierNurse22 and 0.adamantite like this.


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