Foreign Nurses Charged For Walking Off Job - page 7

Smithtown nurses charged with endangering kids after walk-out Ten nurses who abruptly resigned from their jobs last year at a Smithtown nursing center were charged Thursday -- along with an... Read More

  1. by   lllliv
    i don't see anyone advocating for special treatment of these nurses.

    they should not be condemned though by other nurses who don't even know the whole situation.
    Last edit by lllliv on Mar 27, '07
  2. by   Jokerhill
    For all those who play the lotto out there and put all their tickets in a pool and you win, are you all going to quit? Half your staff each have millions in the bank can they quit or do they have to stay? There are many things management can do to cover for the missing staff, some of the management are RNs I'll bet and could cover after all it is ultimately their responsibility. There are of course registry nurses, overtime bonuses for call backs, and patient transfers, or they could have just negotiated with the nurses that quit and make some considerations they should have made long before, just to name a few. So if endangerment happened it was not due to the nurses it was managements unwillingness to make the needed arrangements and unwillingness to pay the price. Our management knows nurses are quiting here and they know why, but they also don't want to pay the price. They keep taking patients and the money for them non-stop however. Management creates the situation gets paid for it and then puts the nurses in a no win situation. So, I ask what is worse being put in a position of giving sub-par care or doing what you can with what you have to hold management accountable for the care they are being paid to perform. Would you give up your job with it costing you a dissolution fee for your contract to protect your patients?
  3. by   Sheri257
    I am NOT advocating working in crappy conditions. I'm not arguing that they should have put up with it either. I personally have worked for horrible employers in those crappy conditions myself.

    I quit, and believe me ... I was very tempted to walk out myself. But I still gave the standard two weeks notice, because I knew what would happen if I didn't.

    We all know what happens when even just ONE person calls out at the last minute. The other staff is screwed ... not to mention the patients. I can't imagine was it was like with ten people walking out because it's bad enough when just one person doesn't show up at the last minute.

    I don't know about you guys but, I also feel an obligation to the patients and the staff who does work there. It's not their fault if management sucks.

    Because ultimately, you're not sticking it to management, you're screwing the patients and your colleagues who get stuck with the burden and somehow have to do the job even more short handed.

    Just because management sucked, that doesn't mean I should dump on the other staff and the patients by not giving adequate notice and not showing up when I was supposed to be there.

    That would make me just as bad, if not worse, than management.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Mar 27, '07
  4. by   boot_unit
    i have found thread about this topic here

    http://www.topix.net/forum/source/ne...9DMJ3EC3DUR/p1

    this one more about sentosa

    http://www.sassylawyer.com/2006/07/2...nurses-plight/

  5. by   boot_unit
  6. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Gromit
    Parading pictures of kids who are ill and on life support is dishonest at best, disrespectful of the kids at worst. If THAT is what it takes for the prosecution to make its' case, then they really don't have much of a case, do they?
    Whether you like it or not, pictures of the kids who were potentially endangered is probably going to be relevant to this case and a judge will probably allow it to be presented to the jury.

    I've been in court a few times myself (although not related to nursing issues). The practical reality here is: if you're going to get into a major fight with a company that has a lot more money than you do ... you've got to remain sqeaky clean. You've got to be smart about it. You don't want to give them any opportunity to come back at you with anything negative.

    Even if by some miracle they do win, I'm sure the lawyers fees alone will cost a fortune ... and will easily wipe out the $25K they were trying to save by breaking the contract in the first place.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Mar 27, '07
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from chris_at_lucas_RN
    Never thought I'd find myself on the same side of a strong arguement as you, lizz, but here we are, two hotheads in agreement. Nice to see you again!
    Yep, miracles do happen. But when you're right ... you're right.

    Nice to see you too Chris.

    :typing
  8. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Gromit
    However, I'm more than a little sick and tired of the cry "handicapped children on vents!!!" -as if any adult or other age bracket were to be considdered to be less important. Those cries are designed for one thing only -to tug at the heart strings. Sorry, but I don't fall for that kind of hooey. They are patients. No more or less deserving than the other patients in the facilities in question.
    Well, I will admit to some bias here. Maybe it is because I've taken care of children on respirators but, I do think they deserve more consideration.

    Surely we have all taken care of elderly adults who are just as helpless. But many of the patients that I've taken care of, at least, had some quality of life as adults before they got sick. A lot of the time, their conditions are simply due to old age or maybe they got into a bad accident but, at least most of them did have a life beforehand.

    If a child is on a respirator chances are, they have always been and are going to be disabled for all of their life. A lot of them are brain damaged, and some of them are on respirators because their parents abused and abandoned them. They had no chance at quality of life to begin with.

    So ... I'll confess .... that does pull at my heart strings. You bet. Because these kids will never have a chance to do the things most adult patients were able to do before they got sick.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Mar 27, '07
  9. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from lizz
    Whether you like it or not, pictures of the kids who were potentially endangered is probably going to be relevant to this case and a judge will probably allow it to be presented to the jury.

    I've been in court a few times myself (although not related to nursing issues). The practical reality here is: if you're going to get into a major fight with a company that has a lot more money than you do ... you've got to remain sqeaky clean. You've got to be smart about it. You don't want to give them any opportunity to come back at you with anything negative.

    Even if by some miracle they do win, I'm sure the lawyers fees alone will cost a fortune ... and will easily wipe out the $25K they were trying to save by breaking the contract in the first place.

    :typing
    It really isn't a matter of whether I like it or not. Why would pictures have to be presented to the jury? Are you anticipating that it will be necessary to prove that the patients in question were children on respirators? If not, what evidenciary value would the pictures add to the trial? None whatsoever. Using them would be a ploy to "tug on the jury's heartstrings". Trials are meant to be about facts, not emotions.

    My child's disability it developmental, not physical, but I'll tell you what. I find the idea of waving his picture around in an attempt to whip up sympathy pretty distasteful. He is entitled to his privacy and dignity just as these children are.
    Last edit by mercyteapot on Mar 27, '07
  10. by   sunnyjohn
    Quote from mercyteapot
    Why would the judge allow pictures of these children to be shown to the jury? Is there some question about whether or not the patients in question were children on respirators? No? Then what evidenciary value would the pictures add to the trial? None whatsoever. Using them would be a ploy to "tug on the jury's heartstrings". Trials are meant to be about facts, not emotions.
    Sick kids always "sell' in a courtroom. Think of all those TV ads by lawyers with kids in wheelchairs because, "THE OB/GYN made a mistake"

    IF these nurses broke criminal law, they should be punished. If they broke contract law and messed over the agency, they should be punished accordingly.

    If this agency or healthcare facility is in violation, they shouls ALSO be punished.

    The DA needs to be voted out too if he is just doing this for effect.

    This case needs to be about nurses right's, agency recruitment (preventing abuse and holding both parties to their promises) as well as patient care.
  11. by   EmerNurse
    I have a few questions.

    1. Would we feel differently if there were no lawyer involved?

    2. In a crappy workplace, what if several nurses, on their own, decided to quit very close to each other. Perhaps they all give 2 weeks notice but give their last day as the same day. Does the employer have any right to say "sorry that can't be your last day, you have to stay at least another week!"

    3. I'm in a right-to-work state. The employer has the right to fire me for any reason at any time, and I have the right to leave the same way. Does that make a difference?

    With the info thus far, and assuming the nurses reported off to the next shift, I don't think they should be prosecuted. Was their organized walk-out ethical? I couldn't do it, honestly. But criminal prosecution?
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from mercyteapot
    It really isn't a matter of whether I like it or not. Why would pictures have to be presented to the jury? Are you anticipating that it will be necessary to prove that the patients in question were children on respirators? If not, what evidenciary value would the pictures add to the trial? None whatsoever. Using them would be a ploy to "tug on the jury's heartstrings". Trials are meant to be about facts, not emotions.

    My child's disability it developmental, not physical, but I'll tell you what. I find the idea of waving his picture around in an attempt to whip up sympathy pretty distasteful. He is entitled to his privacy and dignity just as these children are. If someone violates his rights, you bet I'm going to want my "day in court" (quotation marks because it has never actually come to that for us, but more than once I've had to fight the system).
    The DA was showing pictures during the press conference and I haven't seen the pictures but, presumably, they'd already gotten consent forms or whatever waivers they needed to show those pictures. Or, maybe they just simply blocked the kids' faces out.

    As for the evidentiary value: the indictment talks about tracheostomies, how the kids needed to be suctioned, how the respirator machines had alarms on them, etc. So, I could easily see the courts allowing the pictures for demonstration purposes.

    Maybe the defense will argue that the pictures are inflammatory but, we're not talking about a bloody crime scene.

    :typing
  13. by   Sheri257
    Quote from EmerNurse
    In a crappy workplace, what if several nurses, on their own, decided to quit very close to each other. Perhaps they all give 2 weeks notice but give their last day as the same day. Does the employer have any right to say "sorry that can't be your last day, you have to stay at least another week!"
    Not to my knowledge, and I don't live in a right to work state.

    You can still quit at any time with notice. The only thing an employer can do (at least in my state) is make you pay a financial penalty under contract, but only IF they gave you some money, loans, etc. up front.

    Like if they paid you a $10K bonus for a 2-3 year commitment, loaned you some money for a 2-3 year commitment or, in the case of these nurses, paid for their expenses to come here and get licensed.

    You'd have to pay the penalty under the contract terms, but they can't keep you from quitting.

    And, if a bunch of nurses quit all at the same time, as far as I know that would be legal if they gave adequate notice.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Mar 27, '07

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