Filipina nurse, family face deportation - page 4

This community is rallying behind a nurse and her family who face deportation for overstaying their visas. NEW ROCKFORD, N.D. Marina Arroyo, who is from the Philippines, her husband and their... Read More

  1. by   NICUrn2B
    "I cannot agree with amnesty for all the illegal immigrants when my friend did things by the book and got screwed over anyway. If people want to come to America, I believe they should do it the right way. Not come to our country, break our laws, and then march down to the White House to say how unfair all us Americans are for NOT wanting to provide amnesty for those who entered our country illegally. Why should they benefit from committing a crime? It's just not fair to those who did things the legal way."


    Thank you! Thats exactly how I feel. My parents, like a lot of others, came there and did things the legal way which also meant paying LOTS of money and enduring lots of stress. It would not be fair to let those in hiding just "cut" in line!!
  2. by   mercyteapot
    I'm not even sure why this nurse's story is getting the media attention. This happens to people every day. A few years ago, a man here in San Diego had to return to England. He'd been living here with his same sex partner for many years and owned a small theater, but once immigration discovered him, off he went. That seemed especially unfair since this country wouldn't allow the couple to legally marry, but he did what he was told and made a comment that he realized he was just one of many being sent back to whence they came.
  3. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from rehab nurse
    Yet other people come into this country illegally, and are allowed to march in our streets protesting for amnesty, even though they broke all our laws in the first place, and continue to do so.

    I cannot agree with amnesty for all the illegal immigrants when my friend did things by the book and got screwed over anyway. If people want to come to America, I believe they should do it the right way. Not come to our country, break our laws, and then march down to the White House to say how unfair all us Americans are for NOT wanting to provide amnesty for those who entered our country illegally. Why should they benefit from committing a crime? It's just not fair to those who did things the legal way.
    It might surprise people to find out that for most of the 'criminals' coming here illegally, there is no line to get in to do things 'the legal way.' That's not just my opinion; I have heard numerous immigration lawyers say the same thing. If anyone would know, it would be them.

    In my mind, it is a far greater crime to let your family starve than to cross a border without papers that you can't get anyway. And, how exactly did the USA get started anyway? By people who came here without permission and clamored for recognition from another country's government...

    My sympathies are still with the nurse and her family.
  4. by   Weeping Willow
    Quote from shrek
    I think the system worked perfectly in this case...three years is a long time. She was breaking the law and she was caught. This has nothing to do with humane or not humane. The system worked. We should be so lucky that it works this well all the time. There alot of people here that do not belong here, they work and use our system, they commit crimes, they show a blatant disregard for our country. If you are not here legally, you should have to leave. You can bet other countries do not have such a LIBERAL immigration system.
    I guess it's maybe a bad thing that the early European settlers (invaders) didn't have to leave. Not to be controversial, but it seems like a lot of people here don't keep history in mind when responding to this thread. Let's remember who was here first and that everyone else is "illegal". Recall the vicious treatment so often accorded the Native Americans, remember the many broken treaties, remember the plunder and theft and destruction wrought by those immigrants. Many of the people here are descended from them, no doubt. How can we reconcile all of this?

    Personally, I think anyone should be able to live wherever they prefer. It is arrogant self-interest to try to shut out people who come here willing to work and work very hard to make a better life for themselves and their loved ones. If someone isn't against us, then they're for us. That is, if they work, pay their bills, raise their kids to be civil and to behave properly instead of going to jail, if they pay their own way as best they humanly can, well, what's wrong with that? Never mind their different color or religion - are they decent individual people?

    Zoning, immigration, tax laws, our schools, so much of what's on TV and in the radio waves - all are designed to control, to herd the masses. We need to focus on doing what's right, not allow government to get us focusing on the trees so that we don't see the forest.

    Of course, there is the old thing about walking a mile in my shoes before drawing a conclusion. Throughout history, people have immigrated to find riches or peace, freedom, and a chance to survive. They have left family and home and everyone near and dear to themselves and gone to a foreign place because they thought it was adventurous or gave the chance to survive and thrive. Wouldn't we all do the same if forced by conditions beyond our control? We need to be conscious of the pain that pushes so many immigrants to become immigrants and to flee their homelands.

    I know that immigrants are often seen as a threat to the indigenous worker, as they might work for less money or use up public funds in the health care and schooling system. Sure, there can be problems. But if we were all to focus on pleasing God the King of Kings, we would find the way of brotherly Love that would get us through these troubles. At least, that's how I see it. Peace.
  5. by   mercyteapot
    Illegal means breaking a law. The Native Americans didn't impose any such laws against immigration, so your assertion is not actually true.

    Let everyone live where they want is a lovely idea but just doesn't cut it. We've got an infrastructure with which to concern ourselves, and we have to figure out a way to accommodate as many newcomers as possible without depleting resources that will be needed by our descendants for many generations to come.
  6. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from mercyteapot
    Illegal means breaking a law. The Native Americans didn't impose any such laws against immigration, so your assertion is not actually true.
    Maybe there was no law per se, but their land sure as heck got taken away.

    I maintain that for the majority of people coming here there is no line for them to get in to come legally, nor can they sustain themselves/their families in their countries of origin. I have seen it with my own eyes. Far be it for me to tell someone they have to watch their families starve.

    My sympathies are still with the nurse and her family.
  7. by   rehab nurse
    Arwen, I think you misunderstood me. I feel very sorry for this family.

    Weeping Willow, yes, I am very aware that Native Americans went through some horrid and unimaginable treatment by some of the people who came here, wanting to be free from England. I still don't think they are treated correctly.

    My family came here through Ellis Island in 1892.

    Arwen, being a mother myself, I have to say that I would do whatever it took to make sure my children were fed. If that meant crossing the border to another country, I cannot say I wouldn't do it. As Bethin said, no one knows what they would do until faced with a particular situation.

    I *DO* feel for this nurse and her family. I have a friend in the same situation!! Or a very similar one, anyway.

    I did not write the laws of this country. I do not make policy on who can and cannot come here. But we do need some control over our borders. Not everyone comes here illegally to feed their kids. Some come to do harm, or to escape from the law in their home countries. I am not saying all illegal immigrants are bad people. But what is the point of having laws if no one follows them? Maybe we should all just go back to Europe and whatever other country all of us came from?



    I was going to write more, but my brain is mush from this weeks chemo, and I just can't think anymore. This is exactly the reason I don't like to post anymore. I knew I shouldn't have posted. I don't have any fight left in me. Sorry if this is just a mumbled mess of words here.
    Last edit by rehab nurse on Dec 1, '07
  8. by   mercyteapot
    I do feel for the nurse and her family. I feel for a great many people the world over. I fully support the right of people who are advocating for immigration reform. The only line I draw is that we just can't have carte blanche, a come one, come all attitude. It'd be nice if we could, but we just have to have some degree of balance. Dredging up examples from 300 years ago really doesn't help the discussion. It was different then, because... everything was different then.
  9. by   Weeping Willow
    If no actual law existed, the law of morality and of Do Unto Others most certainly existed and we all know it. and, as Arwen said, their land, their lives, and their way of life were all decimated. Lies, deceit, violence, homicide, rape, stealing of NA children from their tribes and sending them to US gov't schools to force them to learn the ways of whites - these are all historical fact, but maybe you're not familiar with this. I don't mean to preach, but we should be historically accurate, as long as we're discussing all of this.

    Furthermore, wave after wave of immigrants to America were all taken advantage of by those who'd come before them. Many "greenhorns" were met right at the boat they came in on and were helped to find work - at slave wages, living stuffed into horrible tenements, vermin-filled apartments and beds shared with dozens of others who were equally unfortunate and bewildered. Somehow, many of them worked hard and succeeded in climbing out of their misery.

    Many of us today are their descendants. Others were not able to get out of their factory-prisons and died paupers, sick, alone, tossed aside when they became ill or injured on the job in so many cases. There is just so much written on this subject - the Industrial Revolution and its terrible effects on the workers, child labor, Capitalism, man's greed, man's disregard of the wellbeing of his fellow man. Kind of like how insurance companies treat patients and, by their greed, induce hospitals, which don't seem to need too much inducement, to treat us and the patients with so little regard. We are, in large measure, on the same factory assembly line as an auto worker, we are not so very different from the migrant farm worker who gets paid by the pound and must endure really dangerous and painful working conditions in order to eke out an existence. Oh, well, enough on this. Do you see the parallels? No , we don't get paid by the pound but we are alike in some pretty fundamental ways. Ever have Ernst and Young or a similar entity do time & motion studies on you?

    Three hundred years isn't so long ago, actually. And was it really so different? People starved then, as they do now. They wanted to survive then, as now. The major difference I see is that the settlers had the upper hand. Today, the descendants of the settlers are on top and newcomer settlers have to jump through lots of hoops that our forefathers did not, as far as I know.

    I guess my point is that we need to walk a mile in their shoes and also follow the money. It's really all about money and exploitation.

    A stray thought - there's a song by Bobby Darrin about a little girl who sold flowers in Chicago after she became an orphan. This little girl died by freezing to death. I will try to recall the name of it. Sad little ditty, although he does it upbeat.
    Last edit by Weeping Willow on Dec 2, '07
  10. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from Weeping Willow
    If no actual law existed, the law of morality and of Do Unto Others most certainly existed and we all know it. and, as Arwen said, their land, their lives, and their way of life were all decimated. Lies, deceit, violence, homicide, rape, stealing of NA children from their tribes and sending them to US gov't schools to force them to learn the ways of whites - these are all historical fact, but maybe you're not familiar with this. I don't mean to preach, but we should be historically accurate, as long as we're discussing all of this.

    Furthermore, wave after wave of immigrants to America were all taken advantage of by those who'd come before them. Many "greenhorns" were met right at the boat they came in on and were helped to find work - at slave wages, living stuffed into horrible tenements, vermin-filled apartments and beds shared with dozens of others who were equally unfortunate and bewildered. Somehow, many of them worked hard and succeeded in climbing out of their misery.

    Many of us today are their descendants. Others were not able to get out of their factory-prisons and died paupers, sick, alone, tossed aside when they became ill or injured on the job in so many cases. There is just so much written on this subject - the Industrial Revolution and its terrible effects on the workers, child labor, Capitalism, man's greed, man's disregard of the wellbeing of his fellow man. Kind of like how insurance companies treat patients and, by their greed, induce hospitals, which don't seem to need too much inducement, to treat us and the patients with so little regard. We are, in large measure, on the same factory assembly line as an auto worker, we are not so very different from the migrant farm worker who gets paid by the pound and must endure really dangerous and painful working conditions in order to eke out an existence. Oh, well, enough on this. Do you see the parallels? No , we don't get paid by the pound but we are alike in some pretty fundamental ways. Ever have Ernst and Young or a similar entity do time & motion studies on you?

    Three hundred years isn't so long ago, actually. And was it really so different? People starved then, as they do now. They wanted to survive then, as now. The major difference I see is that the settlers had the upper hand. Today, the descendants of the settlers are on top and newcomer settlers have to jump through lots of hoops that our forefathers did not, as far as I know.

    I guess my point is that we need to walk a mile in their shoes and also follow the money. It's really all about money and exploitation.

    A stray thought - there's a song by Bobby Darrin about a little girl who sold flowers in Chicago after she became an orphan. This little girl died by freezing to death. I will try to recall the name of it. Sad little ditty, although he does it upbeat.
    It isn't a matter of "if" no "actual" law existed. It didn't. The fact that it didn't made it possible for the flood of immigrants to arrive here and destroy the Native American way of life with no recourse for them. You decry their experience and yet you still recommend that we allow unchecked immigration now. Interesting.
  11. by   Weeping Willow
    Quote from mercyteapot
    It isn't a matter of "if" no "actual" law existed. It didn't. The fact that it didn't made it possible for the flood of immigrants to arrive here and destroy the Native American way of life with no recourse for them. You decry their experience and yet you still recommend that we allow unchecked immigration now. Interesting.
    You miss my point about morality and moral law. I'm not talking about only laws on the books. I'm talking about the law that is written on our hearts - or should be.

    You do make a good point - how many can immigrate without damaging those of us already here? I don't know if anyone knows the answer. And free movement, free settlement are, in my mind, premised on everyone behaving decently toward everyone else. New arrivals must work and must not try to overpower those already here. There must be mutual respect. Since that very often does not happen in human relationships, I suppose we do need strict quotas, laws, and limits. Alright, I give up. You win, Mercy Teapot. And, no, I am not being sarcastic. I just feel sad that the human condition is so dog eat dog. That's why I'm Weeping Willow - I take all of this too much to heart. Sad that people are so hurtful to each other so often. Life is very hard.:imbar
  12. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from Weeping Willow
    You miss my point about morality and moral law. I'm not talking about only laws on the books. I'm talking about the law that is written on our hearts - or should be.

    You do make a good point - how many can immigrate without damaging those of us already here? I don't know if anyone knows the answer. And free movement, free settlement are, in my mind, premised on everyone behaving decently toward everyone else. New arrivals must work and must not try to overpower those already here. There must be mutual respect. Since that very often does not happen in human relationships, I suppose we do need strict quotas, laws, and limits. Alright, I give up. You win, Mercy Teapot. And, no, I am not being sarcastic. I just feel sad that the human condition is so dog eat dog. That's why I'm Weeping Willow - I take all of this too much to heart. Sad that people are so hurtful to each other so often. Life is very hard.:imbar
    No, I didn't miss your point about morality. There is no question that the Native Americans were treated atrociously by wave after wave after European immigrants who somehow managed at once to be both pious and heinous. And there are still those that wonder how the Aryan Brotherhood still has so many proponents. It is easy for hate to go unchecked when people convince themselves that their behavior is driven by the will of God.

    I think what ends up happening on these boards sometimes is that comments sometimes come off seeming more harsh than the spirit in which they are intended. I don't consider this discussion to be a contest that someone wins and someone loses. No doubt, most of the Americans on allnurses have ancestors who benefited from the days when this country had much more liberal immigration laws. There are probably lots of us who had ancestors that benefited from homesteading laws, too, though. Unfortunately, those laws had to change, too. We no longer have an unconquered frontier that can accommodate an open immigration policy.
  13. by   kryzyl
    my sympathy are with the nurse and family

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