doctors refusing to continue - page 7

this is about an elderly man and his doctor who has refused to continue: because he said that to continue would be "grotesque" Isn't it just as grotesque to abandon the patient?... Read More

  1. by   mizfradd
    Quote from leemacaz
    unfortunately, my family has shown me the decisions they made for others the...that they would not give permission to disconnect event of an accident that was serious, you all know nothing i say in the er will be given any credence...that is why i carry the orange dnr/dni card....
    my problem is just that there seems to be no real mechanism which satisfies both geting treatment yet assuring that, should the need arise, someone will just pull the plug..anyway i do not ever want on a far as i can tell it just means the surgeons can't use any paralytic agents....
    with no guarantee i would not be kept on a ventilator i opt to try and refuse the use of one at all...i am well aware that these are my feelings and that for whatever reasons (s) there is a really scary reality that an accident could place me in a position where what i want or wish wont be honored.
    ita and here's visual proof of why ita:

    john graziano and the extent of his injuries has been recently released
    on this video by his family for the world to see and he's far worse than
    was reported by the media of "just being in a coma."

    i believe quality of life overides quantity of life.

    people need living wills and health directives in place!

    and my husband have both. our lawyer, our pcp's and children have
    copies. we will never fall victim to a so-called "life" that is just existence.
  2. by   mizfradd
    Quote from RNKittyKat
    Anyone remember the case of Karen Ann Quinlan? The family was Roman Catholic. I believe the problem was the opposite though. The docs wanted to keep her on life support. The family believed that life support was in direct contradiction to God's timing and not a divine but human intervention. The courts agreed with the Quinlans and she was taken off the vent. She continued breathing, her heart beating for some years I believe but never regained consciousness.

    I believe, like the Quinlan family, that for this poor soul his time already came. This human intervention is an attempt to thwart God or nature calling this patient from life to whatever lies beyond. If it is meant for him to continue breathing or there is to be a miracle, let go and let it happen.

    The question becomes what constitutes "life".
    Karen was weaned off the ventilator for so long a time and so many times a day....which was still against the Quinlan family wishes, but during that era, the Dr.'s refused to totally disconnect her vent.
    She existed in a vegetative state for a few more yrs. in a SNF and was permanently coiled in a fetal positon way before her death.
  3. by   leemacaz
    Thankyou mizfradd. Today I was told by a nurse who is a neighbor that I am increasing my risk of stroke or other consequences by refusing a vent at all...and that they might be worse than I really need to get my health directive...I only used one I found that wasn't for anything but end of life instructions (Check here for palliative care,,,check here for hydration, etc.)...My neighbor said to write down what I wanted and did not want and talk to someone who would tell me more about how to cover most of the possible occurences..and how to deal with them. In event of an accident, do the hospitals ever try to learn who your PCP is?...I doubt if my family would give the hospital my directive as it does not conform to their ideas... but I am sure my doc would...
  4. by   rnsusan
    Years ago I worked in a step down unit for infants and toddlers. Beds 4-10 were all trached. Five out of the seven were ex-premies with severe lung and brain damage. They were all full codes. I got very good at putting atropine and epi down trachs. They were not ventilated, but they had feeding tubes and had minimal or no ability to feel joy. They got multiple IV sticks. They also had to be suctioned numerous times a day. One of my patient's only joy was his pacifier. The only problem was that he could only keep it in his mouth for 5 minutes. Did I mention that only 1 parent came more than once a month. Some parents never came. I learned how important quality is versus quantity.

    It was a valuable lessen for when my husband became critical ill in the hospital. I was able to tell him that it was ok if he died. When he coded, my first thought/prayer was "Lord, just let him live." Within a minute or two I prayed "Lord, whatever your will is, whether he lives or he dies, do what is best for him." It is the hardest prayer I have ever said. They pronounced him within 30 minutes. We were only married 2 years. I was only 30 years old.

    I agree with letting nature take it course. But I am thankful that I never had to sign a DNR.