Dentists, EMTs, Pharmacists, oh, my! - non-nurses giving shots - page 20

While the article touts that they are going to "deputize" dentists, EMTs, and pharmacists into giving "the flu vaccine" the one thing they don't point out is that there's still not a vaccine for... Read More

  1. Visit  Thornbird profile page
    2
    Under most state laws emergency rseponders can buy and possess Epi-pens to be used in an emergency under existing laws and protocols. I'm sure something similar would be allowed for a pharmacist givng vaccines.
    R.N.'s and L.P.N.'s doing pubic flu clinics carry Epi -pens or kits also to be used for anaphylaxis while waiting for 911 responders. L.P.N.'s have always been allowed to give injections and immunizations. This has never been a procedure requiring a comprehensive assessment. Not to mention, the many states that allow Medical Assistants to administer immunizations. I would be willing to bet that if a survey were done of who currently administers flu shots, R.N.'s would not be in the majority.
    And what we are talking about here is a proposed temporary change to meet a public health emergency.
    wooh and hiddencatRN like this.
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  3. Visit  RNandRRT profile page
    0
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    Shock can set in quickly, and it takes someone who has experience with anaphylactic shock, to realise that it happening, and call 911 ASAP.
    so what you're saying is that it takes only an RN to be able to call the paramedic to come fix the mess? The same paramedic who is now going to be the primary care giver, but wasn't qualified enough to do the injection?
  4. Visit  hiddencatRN profile page
    0
    Quote from rttobern
    so what you're saying is that it takes only an RN to be able to call the paramedic to come fix the mess? The same paramedic who is now going to be the primary care giver, but wasn't qualified enough to do the injection?
    Maybe the paramedic won't know what's wrong with the patient until the RN who skillfully called 911 tells him/her.

    FWIW, paramedics have to take a practical exam in addition to a written exam that consists of being grilled by doctors about an imaginary patient they are responding to. This includes assessing the patient, giving the appropriate treatment quickly enough to prevent the deterioration of the patient's condition, and compensating for the patient's reaction to the treatment. This is not an easy exam, and it's more common to fail the first time you take it than it is to pass.

    So I'm not sure why we're saying that only RNs can perform an assessment.
  5. Visit  Thornbird profile page
    2
    Quote from hiddencat
    Maybe the paramedic won't know what's wrong with the patient until the RN who skillfully called 911 tells him/her.

    FWIW, paramedics have to take a practical exam in addition to a written exam that consists of being grilled by doctors about an imaginary patient they are responding to. This includes assessing the patient, giving the appropriate treatment quickly enough to prevent the deterioration of the patient's condition, and compensating for the patient's reaction to the treatment. This is not an easy exam, and it's more common to fail the first time you take it than it is to pass.

    So I'm not sure why we're saying that only RNs can perform an assessment.
    It's just that some RN' believe that only they can do an assessment. Paramedics not only assess but develop clinical impressions and working diagnoses, something beyond the scope of an RN.

    Also, FWIW, what you describe is the paramedic oral exam which is in addition to the practical exam where they have to demonstrate skills such as IV insertion, ET intubation, IO access, interpreting 12 lead EKG and basing correct treatment off of it as well as others.

    And RN's think they can better assess an allergic reaction or anaphylactic shock?

    I think some people need a dose of reality. There are a whole lot of qualified medical professionals aside from RN's. Taking nothing away from the skill & training an RN receives, have respect for other professions.

    I suppose it would really shock some of you to know that here in CT, a state with not much of a nursing shortage, Respiratory Therapists can administer and assesss PPD's?

    Let's be real here, we're talking about administering flu shots. It's not rocket science.
    flightnurse2b and hiddencatRN like this.
  6. Visit  hiddencatRN profile page
    0
    Quote from Thornbird
    Also, FWIW, what you describe is the paramedic oral exam which is in addition to the practical exam where they have to demonstrate skills such as IV insertion, ET intubation, IO access, interpreting 12 lead EKG and basing correct treatment off of it as well as others.
    My husband took this about a year ago, and I don't remember him talking about doing the physical skills- what they were all worried about was the business with the doctors. Although, now I'm wondering if this all maybe took place at the same time? Only 2 of his classmates passed on the first try, and he was the only one who *only* failed one station. I think it was the EKG station he had to retake.

    He actually looked over some of this thread and had a good laugh. If anyone calls 911 from an RN staffed flu clinic in a certain county that shall remain unnamed, there's a good chance he'll be on the ambulance that shows up.
  7. Visit  Thornbird profile page
    2
    It's possible your hubby did it all on the same day. there are three parts to the paramedic exams-oral, written and practical.

    I'm still an LPN working on my BS that I started prior to nursing because I have found a MSN program that will accept a BS or RN and then "bridge" you to get whichever you don't have. I personally gave about 700 flu shots last year, all by my little LPN self, with no RN there to "assess". Nothing went wrong. If it had, I was supplied with epinephrine and my cell phone, both of which I know how to use. I have experience in recognizing and treating allergic reactions/anaphylaxis and have no doubt that I could have dealt with it a well as anyone else if it happened.

    In a certain area, if it's my EMT time, my paramedic hubby and I could very well be the 911 responders to a flu clinic (or anywhere else) where such an emergency was happening.
    flightnurse2b and hiddencatRN like this.
  8. Visit  Pixie.RN profile page
    0
    Quote from Thornbird
    It's possible your hubby did it all on the same day. there are three parts to the paramedic exams-oral, written and practical.
    When I tested, we did the written one evening, and the next day was the orals and practicals. This was in 2003, though -- and every test site does things a little different. The day of the orals/practicals was one of the longest days of my life! Yikes. Not something I'd ever want to repeat.
  9. Visit  PICNICRN profile page
    0
    Quote from lamazeteacher
    Those skills are very necessary when evaluating risk factors for allergic reactions, assessing possible anaphylactic shock, which does mean that R.N.s are the level of professional that should be giving the shots, cautioning those who get it to stay near the place where it was given, in case of untoward/allergic reaction(s).

    The average person with no hx of allergies, has no epipen (which comes with their doctor's order), and without a specific doctors' order, pharmacists cannot administer epinephrine. Shock can set in quickly, and it takes someone who has experience with anaphylactic shock, to realise that it happening, and call 911 ASAP.
    When you work a flu clinic, you are given an epi pen, benadryl, and standing orders to use them. This stands true to whatever healtcare professional is working the clinic- RN or not. So, in fact, there are epi pens handy and standing orders to cover the person administering.

    Have you ever seen someone go anaphylactic? Yes, it happens quickly... but it is OBVIOUS something is VERY wrong. I have confidence that any RN/LPN/Dentist/Pharm/EMT ect would "realize that it is happening" and be able to call 911 ASAP.

    I have a child with an anaphylactic allergy, everyday I send him to school. I have full confidence in the LAY PEOPLE at the school(no RN on site) that they could recognize what is happening and administer the epi pen and call 911.

    BTW.... RNs cannot give epinepherine without an order either. But I'm pretty sure a Dentist could.
  10. Visit  diane227 profile page
    0
    It is an easy task to learn and there is no reason that it cannot be performed by a pharmacist. There is no need for a patient to have to go to a clinic, their doctors office or to the hospital emergency department to get a flu shot.


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