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Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide



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No. 130
from cateccrn
Old Sep 22, 2006, 10:12 PM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
We ALL know that hospital ER's are being over utilized by people who have no reason to be there (it's an emergency room, not a place for panicky people who feel lonely, overwhelmed by thier sick kid at 11pm, or too damned cheap to pay for an office visit).
THIS is quite possibly why this lady died. EMTLA is here to stay,and hospitals need to set up emergent/non-emergent facilities to allow people to be properly triaged.
I come from an experience as an RN who had recent need of the local ER for abdominal pain. I was in the hallway for 5 hours, but still got excellent medical care. They did the best (ekg, because it could be)etc. etc. All was done, I was sent home (my decision) with pain killers after the CT and labs were normal. What if I was not a nurse who could handle herself and knew when to come back?
Yeah, Maybe I could have had more attention; the aftermath was that my primary told me that ERs are motivated to sending you home alive rather than getting to the root of your problem.
Morale: Don't get sick on Saturday night.
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No. 131
from savergirl
Old Sep 23, 2006, 07:04 AM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
People have caught on to c/o CP, get a room. Happening more and more. Recently I had a patient call back to the treatment area from the waiting room (chief complaint low back pain for weeks). He was yelling and angry that people were going back ahead of him. I tried to explain triage and pateints seen based on acuity (using laymen's terms). Then he said "Then I'm having chest pain". I instructed him to return to the triage nurse for reassessment.

Another favorite, teenage boy with cold sx waiting to be seen with Dad. We had 3 MI patients present within a short period of time prior to this patient being seen. Dad angry at wait, once again explained acuity, critical patients first, .... His remark "You mean if someone else comes in having a heart attack, we're going to have to wait even longer?" Yes sir??????????
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No. 132
from teeituptom
Old Sep 23, 2006, 10:11 AM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by MilitaryMedtoRN
What was this nurse thinking??? Nausea, SOB and CP. This is ridiculous.
They may make it sound bad

But you werent there to make the assessment
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No. 133
Old Sep 23, 2006, 10:35 AM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by teeituptom
They may make it sound bad

But you werent there to make the assessment
Yes you are right I wasnt there to make the assessment, however, if I had been I would have taken the patient back immediately. Some co-workers saw this story on the news and they said that the patient's daughter went up to the nurse five times to tell her that her mother wasnt feeling good. I did not see this news broadcast but if this is what happened this is not good.
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No. 134
from teeituptom
Old Sep 23, 2006, 10:43 AM
Updated Sep 23, 2006 at 10:47 AM by teeituptom

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
1. So you are making your harsh criticisms on what you heard. Not what you can see and measure with your own eyes. How come the worst criticisms are always from young military medics who are in nursing schools. and think they know everything.
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No. 135
Old Sep 23, 2006, 11:08 AM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by teeituptom
1. So you are making your harsh criticisms on what you heard. Not what you can see and measure with your own eyes. How come the worst criticisms are always from young military medics who are in nursing schools. and think they know everything.
Thats a good question. 11 years as a medic. Nurse now and because I love ER nursing thats what I choose. You have a nice day.
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No. 136
from azhiker96
Old Sep 23, 2006, 11:32 AM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by teeituptom
1. So you are making your harsh criticisms on what you heard. Not what you can see and measure with your own eyes.
Good point teeituptom. However, I wasn't there for any of the items in "Nursing News". Do you figure we shouldn't discuss them since we weren't there? It would make for really short threads if we just posted news items but couldn't discuss them since we don't know all the facts or even if the reports are accurate.

I figure if anyone really messed up at that ED, we'll see it in a new thread with a title "ED (doc/nurse/tech/pt daughter) charged with murder". Maybe a grand jury will indict the whole department and a judge will shut it down. That would surely protect the community from poor triage.
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No. 137
from twotrees2
Old Sep 23, 2006, 08:23 PM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by EDValerieRN
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/15/er.....ap/index.html

Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide

"WAUKEGAN, Illinois (AP) -- A coroner's jury has declared the death of a heart attack victim who spent almost two hours in a hospital waiting room to be a homicide.
Beatrice Vance, 49, died of a heart attack, but the jury at a coroner's inquest ruled Thursday that her death also was "a result of gross deviations from the standard of care that a reasonable person would have exercised in this situation."

Vance had waited almost two hours for a doctor to see her after complaining of classic heart attack symptoms -- nausea, shortness of breath and chest pains, Deputy Coroner Robert Barrett testified.

She was seen by a triage nurse about 15 minutes after she arrived, and the nurse classified her condition as "semi-emergent," Barrett said. He said Vance's daughter twice asked nurses after that when her mother would see a doctor.
When her name was finally called, a nurse found Vance slumped unconscious in a waiting room chair without a pulse. Barrett said. She was pronounced dead shortly afterward."
it really is unfortunate that the old statistics that women are not taken seriously as much as men in regards to heart issues is true to this day - when i was about 35 i had classic heart attack symptoms the PA took a chest xray gave me abx and sent me home - i woke up a week later to find a whole week gone and that i had supposedly talked to the doc 2 days later - i went in for the FU which normally i wouldn't do if i felt better - to see what he had said when he called.

apparently he called to tell me i did NOT have pneumonia as he thought - i dont remember it - next thing i knew there were 3 docs in the room checking my heart and pulses and i was being sent to the hospital for tests - turns out i had had a heart attack -

the reason i dont recall the week i suppose is i went out from the heart attack and was just blessed i did not die. thank god my teens were on spring break as my toddlers would have been running the house!! of course the kids did not think to much cause mom was leaving them alone - they said i hardly even got up to the bathroom - i dont recall. and i had been sick before and stuck in bed.

even sadder is my chart shows very heavily EVERYWHERE that i have a very heavy family hx of heart issus including my mother died at 45 and that i have my own heart issues including an electrical conduction problem - i know it was there even at that time as i have always made a BIG deal out of it being there due to fear of dying young like my mom. not a good feeling knowing i was nearly a statistic.

trying to find the good of it -i am alive and we did find out that 2 of my valves are not good and will need to be replaced eventually so now we keep an eye on them and i have to take preantibiotics.
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No. 138
from twotrees2
Old Sep 23, 2006, 08:30 PM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by rjflyn
My question is where was the EKG on this patient. The national standard of care is that a patient having an MI have one within 15 mins of arrival. Hence at my facility even when full up and overflowing we have one done on every patient presenting with chest pain in the triage area if need be. I would find it extremely hard to believe that this patients EKG did not have changes consistent with MI or at the very least abnormal to the point of she would not of waited in triage long enough to move some BS pt out in to the hall.

So yes something criminal did take place. As to what I will not say as I dont know that hospital system or their protocols.

With out all the informatin ie the chart specifically its hard to know what the triage nurse was presented with or saw. But since a jury determined a gross deviation from standards I would bet something pretty glaring occurred.



Rj
not that its an excuse but perhaps she was a chronic and the nurse did not believe her - i know its a sad excuse ( we had one - wanted morphine - one of or very very few that made "the list" but we ALWAYS took her right in and did all the appropriate tests and admitted her for observation overnight every time) just a thought - as i said no excuse but a possibility?
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No. 139
from twotrees2
Old Sep 23, 2006, 08:54 PM

Default Re: Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide
Originally Posted by CHATSDALE
i worked for a DON once who told me if i needed to go to er no matter the problem to c/o of cps she felt that that was the smart thing to do... i don't think she ever worked in an er

as to the denial part, i had crushing chest pain, disphorisis etc i jumped in the car and drove 20 minutes away to a hospital passing a charity hospital on the way...please don't call me stupid, my kids and the er people took care of that md said that he hated to have nurses for patients..turne out to be hh and it has not repeated in 5 years, i really don't know how i drove through traffic in that condition

not stupid - done it myself - my family said its cause i was stubborn - just did not want to bother anyone in case it turned out to be nothing lol. turned out tobe someting, but you are not alone
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